[Weekes/Dhaliwal] Zadorov Requests Trade, Canucks/Leafs Among Interested Teams

[DownUndaCanuck]

15 hours ago, NoCupSyndrome said:

From Flames Nation - I would take that deal (given that there is a high chance the team could extend Zadorov):

 

Proposed Trade

 

To Vancouver: Nikita Zadorov

 

To Calgary: Anthony Beauvillier, Jett Woo, 2024 Third-Round Pick, 2025 Second-Round Pick

Seems a bit much for a guy who has said he wants out, and in a contract year so could technically just walk. 

 

Beauvillier goes back for cap reasons mainly but I think does have some positive value. A 2nd and 3rd round pick is way too much. 

 

I think we'd get away with something like Beauvillier + defensive prospect alone. If not, a mid to late pick on top. A 2nd is far too high, even if it is in a couple of seasons.

If we're giving up that much I'd rather just go Beauvillier + 1st + 2nd + prospect for Hanifin.

[Captain insano]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:27 AM, Rubik said:

 

 

since when do we base a big, physical, stay-at-home defenceman's value on his point production lol? I just love how you cropped out the only stat that would really matter in his case, the +/-

You’re missing my point…even tho I think +\- stat reflects on playing for a good team or not let’s pretend it matters  when has anyone ever valued a mid to less than mid stay at home dman if that’s what you’re calling him a first or a top prospect value? it’s just insanity 

[Rubik]

1 minute ago, Captain insano said:

You’re missing my point…even tho I think +\- stat reflects on playing for a good team or not let’s pretend it matters  when has anyone ever valued a mid to less than mid stay at home dman if that’s what you’re calling him a first or a top prospect value? it’s just insanity 

 

well, I certainly don't think he's worth a 1st

[SilentSam]

8 hours ago, -AJ- said:

 

You're using almost 3-year old data if you rely on Avalanche data, but let's roll with it anyway.

 

The Avalanche played him in a defensive role, and his points were lower, which is understandable, but it's worthy of note that we can't expect him to get 20+ points like he has in Calgary if he's played in a defensive role.

 

Looking at his last two years in Colorado (because before that, the data gets so old, it's almost irrelevant), his giveaways and takeaways were more acceptable.

 

He's still not blocking many shots at 133 blocks in 134 games. I'm not sure how much you've looked at blocked shots, but the vast majority of defensemen block well over a shot per game, so just barely getting about a shot per game is not impressive and is in fact, downright bad. Of all seven Avalanche defensemen to play at least 70 games in those two years combined, he has the lowest blocked shots-per-game of any of them.

 

In those past two years, his OZS% was 49.9% and his Corsi was 50.0%, so average.

 

Again, his net penalties per 60 was -1.00, the worst of all seven defensemen. This guy is a penalty-taking machine. Like in Calgary, he was a 2nd unit PK guy in Colorado for those last two years and was decent, but on the lower end of effectiveness relative to his other defenseman teammates like Nemeth, Johnson, and Graves.

 

I really think the era of going hard after a guy because he's big is long gone. Guys like Myers, Gudbranson, Bogosian, etc simply don't thrive anymore. Big guys who do succeed like Hedman do so because they bring more to the table than simply being a big, strong player. Zadorov brings size and physicality, but nothing else. I'm convinced he's probably a 4/5 at best and too slow to keep up with the speed of the current NHL. This is just Tryamkin all over again. People stuck in the past, drooling for players that would've been great in 2002, but can't play the modern game.

ahh yes, the age old ,

          big guy Vs short guy argument ..

 

 

 

 

 

 

Zadorov is more than a big guy ,.   
 

But it’s part of his toolbox for shutting down and deterring Heavy power forwards that many can not,.   Especially in the Chess game of a 7 game playoff series.

[NoCupSyndrome]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Seems a bit much for a guy who has said he wants out, and in a contract year so could technically just walk. 

 

Beauvillier goes back for cap reasons mainly but I think does have some positive value. A 2nd and 3rd round pick is way too much. 

 

I think we'd get away with something like Beauvillier + defensive prospect alone. If not, a mid to late pick on top. A 2nd is far too high, even if it is in a couple of seasons.

If we're giving up that much I'd rather just go Beauvillier + 1st + 2nd + prospect for Hanifin.

 

In my view, the Canucks should keep their 1st round picks at this point. They seem to be getting good value there. 2nd and later is a bit more of a lottery.
 

If they can get Z for less great but my thinking is that if it comes to a take it or leave it moment, I would definitely consider this deal.

 

Z adds some elements the Canucks do not have and he likely fits in a price range that makes sense: Hughes, Hronek, Z and then Soucy/Cole/etc. Hanifin would cost too much given who is ahead of him in the depth chart. Any deal would have to be done on the basis that a 4 year x $4/4.5M deal is possible.

 

[Seventy7]

I don’t understand giving up assets and adding Zadorov at this stage.  We already have Hughes, Cole, Soucy on the left.  That side is fine.  Not great, but fine. We need another RHD. Maybe next offseason for big Z. 
 

Tanev would be fine, but wouldn’t want to extend him for more than 1-2 more seasons tbh.  He’ll likely get 4 years from someone via UFA.  Again no need to give up futures for a rental at this point. 
 

This group is still a ways from being cup worthy.  Get Myers, Garland, Beauvillier, and even Kuzmenko off the books. Add a true top 6F, 3C, Top4RD Get bigger and tougher in support roles and THEN we’re in good shape to be a real threat imo. 

[Sharpshooter]

14 minutes ago, Seventy7 said:

I don’t understand giving up assets and adding Zadorov at this stage.  We already have Hughes, Cole, Soucy on the left.  That side is fine.  Not great, but fine. We need another RHD. Maybe next offseason for big Z. 
 

Tanev would be fine, but wouldn’t want to extend him for more than 1-2 more seasons tbh.  He’ll likely get 4 years from someone via UFA.  Again no need to give up futures for a rental at this point. 
 

This group is still a ways from being cup worthy.  Get Myers, Garland, Beauvillier, and even Kuzmenko off the books. Add a true top 6F, 3C, Top4RD Get bigger and tougher in support roles and THEN we’re in good shape to be a real threat imo. 

Agreed, no futures, but if it really took it on top of players, I’d be fine with a later round pick as well. Myers, Garland or Beau plus a late round pick wouldn’t be terrible to acquire Tanev. 

[Diamonds]

16 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Agreed, no futures, but if it really took it on top of players, I’d be fine with a later round pick as well. Myers, Garland or Beau plus a late round pick wouldn’t be terrible to acquire Tanev. 

We shouldn't be giving up futures for rentals. However, this management group has made it clear they want our window to start now. If we can acquire a true impact player that fits with the age group of the core you have to consider it. Players aren't always available and sometimes you just have to take advantage when they are.

 

Noah Hanifin for example is still just 26. If we can make a deal that includes an extension then we have someone to anchor the 2nd pairing for the next 5 years. That's worth giving up some futures for.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Diamonds said:

We shouldn't be giving up futures for rentals. However, this management group has made it clear they want our window to start now. If we can acquire a true impact player that fits with the age group of the core you have to consider it. Players aren't always available and sometimes you just have to take advantage when they are.

 

Noah Hanifin for example is still just 26. If we can make a deal that includes an extension then we have someone to anchor the 2nd pairing for the next 5 years. That's worth giving up some futures for.

Except Hannifin isn’t good enough to be the anchor of pair 2. He’s a complimentary piece in a top four role. He’s more like Jake Gardiner. Allvin is smart enough to steer clear of Hanifin. 

[PAVEL_BURE10]

If Soucy hurt for a while, do we push hard for Zadorov??

[Rick_theRyper]

7 hours ago, Seventy7 said:

I don’t understand giving up assets and adding Zadorov at this stage.  We already have Hughes, Cole, Soucy on the left.  That side is fine.  Not great, but fine. We need another RHD. Maybe next offseason for big Z. 
 

Tanev would be fine, but wouldn’t want to extend him for more than 1-2 more seasons tbh.  He’ll likely get 4 years from someone via UFA.  Again no need to give up futures for a rental at this point. 
 

This group is still a ways from being cup worthy.  Get Myers, Garland, Beauvillier, and even Kuzmenko off the books. Add a true top 6F, 3C, Top4RD Get bigger and tougher in support roles and THEN we’re in good shape to be a real threat imo. 

Kuzmenko says "waaht?" I've seen this Kuzmenko trade idea a few times now and I don't get it. The guy pretty much score 40 goals last year. I wouldn't dream of trading a guy like that unless he's in his last year and due for a crazy raise and you can't afford him, then you flip him for a 1st. What do we gain by trading him this year? 

[Elias Pettersson]

15 minutes ago, PAVEL_BURE10 said:

If Soucy hurt for a while, do we push hard for Zadorov??

 

Yes...

[JeremyCuddles]

33 minutes ago, PAVEL_BURE10 said:

If Soucy hurt for a while, do we push hard for Zadorov??

They were pushing hard for a d-man when Soucy was injured to start the year. Hell, they were pushing hard for a d-man before his injury. If this is serious it ups that desire that was already high. We are asking to get lit up by icing Juulsen and Friedman regularly. I just hope we don't get too desperate chasing Calgary's UFAs. We don't need to be overpaying for a #4/5 guy. If we pay a premium. It better be for a legit top 4 guy. Zadarov is solid, but I don't want us digging heavy into our prospect/pick pool for him. They are already pretty sparse as is.

[TopCheese]

36 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

Kuzmenko says "waaht?" I've seen this Kuzmenko trade idea a few times now and I don't get it. The guy pretty much score 40 goals last year. I wouldn't dream of trading a guy like that unless he's in his last year and due for a crazy raise and you can't afford him, then you flip him for a 1st. What do we gain by trading him this year? 

Kuzy chem with petey and mickaev is priceless kuzys here till his contract is up 

[Breadnbutta]

14 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

They were pushing hard for a d-man when Soucy was injured to start the year. Hell, they were pushing hard for a d-man before his injury. If this is serious it ups that desire that was already high. We are asking to get lit up by icing Juulsen and Friedman regularly. I just hope we don't get too desperate chasing Calgary's UFAs. We don't need to be overpaying for a #4/5 guy. If we pay a premium. It better be for a legit top 4 guy. Zadarov is solid, but I don't want us digging heavy into our prospect/pick pool for him. They are already pretty sparse as is.

I don't think Calgary has much leverage. He wants out.

 

I can't see this management mortgaging the future they are pretty sharp

[Snoop Hogg]

Sign Alex Edler for free and give up nobody?

[ScottyBoy]

We should trade for OEL, guy's doing great. 

[Maddogy]

After extending Pettersson, Hronek and Friedman (assuming AAV of $13M, $7M and $1M)  the Canucks will have very little cap space left to bolster D for next season. We have good young LHD from AHL to fill the LD position. The remaining cap space should be spent on a top 4 RHD not LHD. I am not convinced that Zadorov can play as a top 4 RD for extended period of time at this alleged elite level. We should go after Rasmus Andersson with our first round draft pick plus a RHD from AHL as Andersson is only 1 year older than Hronek but is more physical and a bit of a better skater. 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Maddogy

[RJCF96]

If Souncy is injured, we should look at a lateral move of Beauvellier+ for Zadorov+.

[wai_lai416]

 

10 hours ago, Seventy7 said:

I don’t understand giving up assets and adding Zadorov at this stage.  We already have Hughes, Cole, Soucy on the left.  That side is fine.  Not great, but fine. We need another RHD. Maybe next offseason for big Z. 
 

Tanev would be fine, but wouldn’t want to extend him for more than 1-2 more seasons tbh.  He’ll likely get 4 years from someone via UFA.  Again no need to give up futures for a rental at this point. 
 

This group is still a ways from being cup worthy.  Get Myers, Garland, Beauvillier, and even Kuzmenko off the books. Add a true top 6F, 3C, Top4RD Get bigger and tougher in support roles and THEN we’re in good shape to be a real threat imo. 

because cole is not a long term fix? he's only signed for 1 year who knows if he's even here next year? zadorov is a long term move with the intention of re-signing him? why are people thinking short term? zadorov would slide in ahead of soucy and cole can switch side for this year.. if he re-sign next year? great if not? we are set on the left side? so you want to get rid of a ppg winger that is a steal at 5.5mil and shows he has chemistry with EP to create cap space?? our defence situation on the left side is just as bad as the right side we have nothing after Hughes just like we have nothing after Hronek.. Soucy is not a top 4 nor is myers ian cole is a stop gap kinda like schenn was and prolly be gone next season if we have a replacement in top 4 left or right

[N4ZZY]

14 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

 

because cole is not a long term fix? he's only signed for 1 year who knows if he's even here next year? zadorov is a long term move with the intention of re-signing him? why are people thinking short term? zadorov would slide in ahead of soucy and cole can switch side for this year.. if he re-sign next year? great if not? we are set on the left side? so you want to get rid of a ppg winger that is a steal at 5.5mil and shows he has chemistry with EP to create cap space?? our defence situation on the left side is just as bad as the right side we have nothing after Hughes just like we have nothing after Hronek.. Soucy is not a top 4 nor is myers ian cole is a stop gap kinda like schenn was and prolly be gone next season if we have a replacement in top 4 left or right

 

I think Cole could probably play another year, maybe even 2 years. He's healthy, and he doesn't seem to be injured often. If the team gives him a two year deal, by the end of that deal, he'd be 36. not too bad. 

[wai_lai416]

2 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

 

I think Cole could probably play another year, maybe even 2 years. He's healthy, and he doesn't seem to be injured often. If the team gives him a two year deal, by the end of that deal, he'd be 36. not too bad. 

so u want a 34-35 year old defenceman as ur top 4? canucks have one of the worse travels in the league. not that we need like super young defenceman.. but i'm not a fan of having a 34+ year old that's suppose to be your top 4. injury and fatigue will be a concern.. and i can see him going to the highest bidder as he doesn't seem to mind changing teams every couple years and if he does re-sign great we can have him playing the right side as he have done plenty of in his career. then we are set on the top 4

[PeteyBOI]

3 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

 

I think Cole could probably play another year, maybe even 2 years. He's healthy, and he doesn't seem to be injured often. If the team gives him a two year deal, by the end of that deal, he'd be 36. not too bad. 

i like lacing 35+ contracts with bonus potential, maybe a 2x2.5 base with bonuses of a million... if he plays like he did this year he gets 3.5 million and earned it if he doesnt he gets 2.5 million and earned it...

2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

so u want a 34-35 year old defenceman as ur top 4? canucks have one of the worse travels in the league. not that we need like super young defenceman.. but i'm not a fan of having a 34+ year old that's suppose to be your top 4. injury and fatigue will be a concern.. and i can see him going to the highest bidder as he doesn't seem to mind changing teams every couple years and if he does re-sign great we can have him playing the right side as he have done plenty of in his career. then we are set on the top 4

he would likely be our 6th defenceman...

[Future Considerations]

If Soucy is injured, next man up is an Abby Canuck

[Diamonds]

11 hours ago, Alflives said:

Except Hannifin isn’t good enough to be the anchor of pair 2. He’s a complimentary piece in a top four role. He’s more like Jake Gardiner. Allvin is smart enough to steer clear of Hanifin. 

Hanifin is absolutely good enough to anchor a 2nd pair and is also much better defensively than Gardiner ever was. Over the past 5+ seasons Hanifin has been with Calgary, he has averaged 21:30/game and 1:45/game on the penalty kill while averaging 0.43 points per game (or 35 points a season). The only defenseman who has averaged more ice-tike during that span in Calgary is Giordano and that includes the year he won the Norris. Oh and for some comparison, Gardiner averaged less than 20 seconds/game on the penalty kill in Toronto. Hanifin is a very good and well-rounded defenseman.

 

Obviously we still shouldn't be overpaying for anything, but Hanifin at 26 years old is pretty much a perfect fit with this current Canucks group.