[Weekes/Dhaliwal] Zadorov Requests Trade, Canucks/Leafs Among Interested Teams

[DeNiro]

Just now, Coconuts said:

Yeah, I don't see Beau as having positive value, maybe neutral value. I've seen folks propose that he could be flipped somewhere like Calgary, and that he could be flipped again for a pick. Thing is, if he could be flipped for a pick why haven't we flipped him yet? If Calgary is taking Beau to facilitate a cap swap we're paying for the favour imo. 

 

Hirose will be 25 in April, bit old for a prospect. Pretty close to being in he is what he is territory. I wouldn't fuss over moving him. 

 

Raty is a former second round pick who may or may not someday develop into a 2-3C. Some argue he's being groomed as a potential 3C, if Zadorov is actually a top 4D would you not trade a potential 3C (not even an actual 3C) in a package for him?

 

There's back and forth as to what Zadorov is (some say 4D, some say less), but if the Canucks are believe he's a 4D they'll probably have to pay a top 4D price. His wanting out of Calgary doesn't mean they have to deal with us, it may very well be we'd be better off being outbid by say.. Toronto. 

Beau gets a pick at the deadline because of cap space. Any team that would look to acquire him would have to wait.

 

Hes a good middle 9 player that brings speed and is low risk.

[Coconuts]

14 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Beau gets a pick at the deadline because of cap space. Any team that would look to acquire him would have to wait.

 

Hes a good middle 9 player that brings speed and is low risk.

 

I could probably agree that he might fetch a low pick at the deadline, but I'm operating under the assumption that a Zadorov move happens sooner than later. Why? Because I think there are teams who'd be willing to bolster their D sooner than later. Leafs could try and ship out Klingberg for example, one could argue that he'd have Calgary on his NTC but if he's not getting ice in Toronto I could maybe see him being willing to waive. They could also work with Bertuzzi (they'd have to because of his NMC) to find him a team where he's a better fit, ideally cutting cap in the process. Not easy but it could be done. 

 

New Jersey could pay Calgary to retain cap (why wouldn't they?) and figure out the extension later.  Colin Miller (RD, 1.85M), Brendan Smith (RD/LD, 1.1M), and a number of forwards (including Toffoli's 4.25M) come off the books at the end of the season. Roughly 2.3M in dead cap also expires. Factor in any cap increases and they could likely get a deal done. 

 

The only larger raise I see Jersey dolling out probably involves Dawson Mercer. Jersey could probably outbid us pretty easily. We're a team looking to get back in the mix, Jersey is a team with a sizeable window looking to break through. 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

I'd operate under the assumption that Calgary is willing to retain cap on contracts to maximize the value of what they can get from their pending UFA's. Assuming Calgary retains 50%, Zadorov at 1.875M is pretty easy for a lot of teams to fit in if Calgary is willing to take cap back. Drives up the price, opens up the pool of teams who could be involved.

Edited November 14, 2023 by Coconuts

[Bure_Pavel]

I think we get outbid for Zadorov, I think Leafs pay a higher price (1st round pick +) for retention. It would probably cost us more being division rivals as well. 

[Rekker]

Just now, Bure_Pavel said:

I think we get outbid for Zadorov, I think Leafs pay a higher price (1st round pick +) for retention. It would probably cost us more being division rivals as well. 

Yip, probably. All good, sign him in the off season 

 

[Bure_Pavel]

2 minutes ago, Rekker said:

Yip, probably. All good, sign him in the off season 

 

The team that trades for him likely signs him right away to an extension, but other fish in the sea. 

[JayDangles]

3 hours ago, BobbyClarke said:

Who let Benning into this group? Calgary would trade Zadorov ++ for Podz in a heartbeat. The idea is for us to screw them, not the other way around. 

I'm not singling you out intentionally, but I do have to finally ask the question. Why are people still so high on Podz?

I mean, what has he done to give anyone the impression he will be a difference maker for the canucks, let alone even crack the roster?

He has regressed in the last 2 years to the point where he can't make the team out of training camp. He seems to have serious problems understanding how to be a power forward and how to translate his game to be effective.

I mean, I get it's early to be giving up on him, but at the same token what has he done that makes everyone still think he is going to be an impactful player?

 

And I sure hope the answer isn't "power forwards take longer to develop"

[Honkin Hronek]

2 minutes ago, Rekker said:

Yip, probably. All good, sign him in the off season 

 

That’s how I see it going, with Zadorov being the Ian Cole replacement. 
 

Hughes - Hronek 

Zadorov - ?

Soucy - ? 
 

How do we fill out the rest of the lineup? 

[Screw]

I can not see a world where the Canucks obtain Zadorov at anything approaching a reasonable price.  They would need to outbid eastern teams and pay a premium to a division rival.   

[Nucker67]

14 minutes ago, Honkin Hronek said:

That’s how I see it going, with Zadorov being the Ian Cole replacement. 
 

Hughes - Hronek 

Zadorov - ?

Soucy - ? 
 

How do we fill out the rest of the lineup? 

 

Where'd Cole go? He's been great for the Canucks. 

[Warhippy]

16 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I'm not singling you out intentionally, but I do have to finally ask the question. Why are people still so high on Podz?

I mean, what has he done to give anyone the impression he will be a difference maker for the canucks, let alone even crack the roster?

He has regressed in the last 2 years to the point where he can't make the team out of training camp. He seems to have serious problems understanding how to be a power forward and how to translate his game to be effective.

I mean, I get it's early to be giving up on him, but at the same token what has he done that makes everyone still think he is going to be an impactful player?

 

And I sure hope the answer isn't "power forwards take longer to develop"

It took less than this for fans to give up on OJ and at this stage even virtanen was progressing more positively

 

Conversation for another thread, but I agree that Podz currently does not have the value many believe he does

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, Nucker67 said:

 

Where'd Cole go? He's been great for the Canucks. 

Agreed.

Cole has been a very steady presence on the back end eating up good minutes. He is also dishing out some good hits which is leading to powerplays.

I don't see any reason to look for an upgrade on Cole at this time.

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

It took less than this for fans to give up on OJ and at this stage even virtanen was progressing more positively

 

Conversation for another thread, but I agree that Podz currently does not have the value many believe he does

And if he does have the value still, perhaps now IS the right time to move him. But yes, probably a conversation for a different thread.

[Bobby James]

As mentioned, I think it would cost too much to convince Calgary to trade with us. I'd rather just offer him a contract in the offseason and see if he's interested in coming here. 

 

Toronto sounds like they are going hard for him. 

 

I do wonder if Garland for Zad would work. Calgary gets a player with term back, but Dman are typically more valuable then wingers. 

[Rekker]

33 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The team that trades for him likely signs him right away to an extension, but other fish in the sea. 

Ya. There is so much that goes on behind the scenes in UFA season. Best case is he goes to TO and doesn't like it. Sharing agents with Kuz and Mik, who knows. If Canucks and Zad want the relationship, it will happen imho. But like you said, depends on how it goes with whoever aquires the big guy. Would love him here. 

[Rekker]

41 minutes ago, Screw said:

I can not see a world where the Canucks obtain Zadorov at anything approaching a reasonable price.  They would need to outbid eastern teams and pay a premium to a division rival.   

The rumored offer from the Leafs include Minten. If this is true, that's basically a first pick. I really want Zad here, but not at the cost of our first rounder or a top prospect. I'm open to trading that pick but it's our best trade chip so would prefer a younger dman in return. 

[BC_Hawk]

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

Beau gets a pick at the deadline because of cap space. Any team that would look to acquire him would have to wait.

 

Hes a good middle 9 player that brings speed and is low risk.

Low risk top 9 depth guy on an expiring contract with the potential for salary retention; guy has value...my guess could get one a 4th with retention. 

[BC_Hawk]

11 minutes ago, Rekker said:

The rumored offer from the Leafs include Minten. If this is true, that's basically a first pick. I really want Zad here, but not at the cost of our first rounder or a top prospect. I'm open to trading that pick but it's our best trade chip so would prefer a younger dman in return. 

He's not worth a 1st, especially on an expiring contract. That Minten move would be just asinine. One must remember that Schenn yielded  just a 3rd at TDL. That's an expiring contract, heavy game, low salary, and leadership. One has to look at Zadorov as the same except with higher salary w/o retention. Remeber, he is NOT signed longterm.

 

[Rekker]

Just now, BC_Hawk said:

He's not worth a 1st, especially on an expiring contract. That Minten move would be just asinine. One must remember that Schenn yielded  just a 3rd at TDL. That's an expiring contract, heavy game, low salary, and leadership. One has to look at Zadorov as the same except with higher salary w/o retention. Remeber, he is NOT signed longterm.

 

I agree, not worth a first. I could see TO doing it though if salary retained. To a compete now team like TO., Zad at 50 percent retained is of great value. 

[GrammaInTheTub]

3 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

He's not worth a 1st, especially on an expiring contract. That Minten move would be just asinine. One must remember that Schenn yielded  just a 3rd at TDL. That's an expiring contract, heavy game, low salary, and leadership. One has to look at Zadorov as the same except with higher salary w/o retention. Remeber, he is NOT signed longterm.

 

Good comp with the one notable difference being Zadorov’s age and Schenn coming off back to back hard earned contracts. But Schenn did get his payday at 2.75 afterwards, so for those cap fixated people it’s a good benchmark this way too. 

[Rusty Shackleford]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

I'd operate under the assumption that Calgary is willing to retain cap on contracts to maximize the value of what they can get from their pending UFA's. Assuming Calgary retains 50%, Zadorov at 1.875M is pretty easy for a lot of teams to fit in if Calgary is willing to take cap back. Drives up the price, opens up the pool of teams who could be involved.

 

Great posts, Coco.  The question then becomes, what does Calgary value in return for their roster/retool.  Roster player has to be cheap if they want to retain cap which means there has to be a high pick or good prospect along with, and are teams willing to pay that or roll the dice waiting for him to be UFA.

 

PA has shown he can be patient but will also strike when there's a deal to be made.  I don't see why Calgary would wait this out since it's now public knowledge Zadorov has asked for a trade.

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Rusty Shackleford said:

 

Great posts, Coco.  The question then becomes, what does Calgary value in return for their roster/retool.  Roster player has to be cheap if they want to retain cap which means there has to be a high pick or good prospect along with, and are teams willing to pay that or roll the dice waiting for him to be UFA.

 

PA has shown he can be patient but will also strike when there's a deal to be made.  I don't see why Calgary would wait this out since it's now public knowledge Zadorov has asked for a trade.

 

I think Calgary's in a position where they're more likely to get picks/prospects/young NHL'ers back for their UFA's than anything resembling the Tkachuk trade, which brought back what were supposed to be premier players. 

 

The teams most likely to pony up for Calgary's UFA's probably aren't teams looking to give up intergral pieces of their NHL rosters. 

 

I think there's a strong chance that teams who acquire said UFA's also look to lock them up (the exception maybe being Tanev, who probably doesn't get a long-term extension imo, maybe something more short/medium-term). Wouldn't make sense to trade for Hanifin or Lindholm as rentals imo, they will be very expensive acquisitions. One would have to be pretty confident in one's cup chances to empty the coffers the way Boston did last season, it doesn't guarantee a cup. At least an extension makes it likely you get longer term value for paying up. 

 

I don't think Calgary will drag the Zadorov thing either, I think he'll be moved sooner than later. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Coconuts

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I think Calgary's in a position where they're more likely to get picks/prospects/young NHL'ers back for their UFA's than anything resembling the Tkachuk trade, which brought back what were supposed to be premier players. 

 

The teams most likely to pony up for Calgary's UFA's probably aren't teams looking to give up intergral pieces of their NHL rosters. 

 

I think there's a strong chance that teams who acquire said UFA's also look to lock them up (the exception maybe being Tanev, who probably doesn't get a long-term extension imo, maybe something more short/medium-term). Wouldn't make sense to trade for Hanifin or Lindholm as rentals imo, they will be very expensive acquisitions. One would have to be pretty confident in one's cup chances to empty the coffers the way Boston did last season, it doesn't guarantee a cup. At least an extension makes it likely you get longer term value for paying up. 

 

I don't think Calgary will drag the Zadorov thing either, I think he'll be moved sooner than later. 

 

Unless it's to continue to retool on the fly. If they can't move huberbust and Marky then they may not go rebuild.

[Bure_Pavel]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Yeah, I don't see Beau as having positive value, maybe neutral value. I've seen folks propose that he could be flipped somewhere like Calgary, and that he could be flipped again for a pick. Thing is, if he could be flipped for a pick why haven't we flipped him yet? If Calgary is taking Beau to facilitate a cap swap we're paying for the favour imo. 

 

Hirose will be 25 in April, bit old for a prospect. Pretty close to being in he is what he is territory. I wouldn't fuss over moving him. 

 

Raty is a former second round pick who may or may not someday develop into a 2-3C. Some argue he's being groomed as a potential 3C, if Zadorov is actually a top 4D would you not trade a potential 3C (not even an actual 3C) in a package for him?

 

There's back and forth as to what Zadorov is (some say 4D, some say less), but if the Canucks believe he's a 4D they'll probably have to pay a top 4D price. His wanting out of Calgary doesn't mean they have to deal with us, it may very well be we'd be better off being outbid by say.. Toronto. 

At this point I would say Raty is a potential 2C with a pretty good shot of at least hitting 3C, I would not be looking to move him unless its for an overpayment. Our C prospect depth is very thin. Zadorov has been traded three times and has yet to lockdown a top 4 spot on an NHL club. I would love to add his size and physicality to the back end but very similar to Soucy who we added for free. I would prefer to add a proven top 4 Dman if giving up significant assets. If price is around a 2nd and a 3rd round pick im game. If price is a first round or equivalent asset, I would look for other options.    

[Hairy Kneel]

Rumor

Leafs would be working on something including John Klingberg and the Vancouver native prospect, Fraser Minten. Klingberg is on an expiring deal and definitely appears in this trade for cap reasons. Minten is the real asset, the 2022 38th overall's stock has risen and it would make sense for the Leafs to try an capitalize on that.

Obviously, the Canucks' offer would start with Anthony Beauvilier. He's on an ending contract with a similar cap hit, it gets tricky about the prospect they could pitch in. Minten is a nearly NHL-ready forward, he's already played in four NHL games before he was sent down to the WHL. Would the equivalent be Danila Klimovich? Arshdeep Bains? Sawyer Mynio? Should the Canucks try and match that?