Frank Seravalli on the Canucks (He's right!)

[Jeremy Hronek]

3 hours ago, AK-19 said:

 

I don't have the source anymore since it was so long ago but the Bruins knew Benning was leaving that season and kept him intentionally out of scouting for the draft. Also, part of the agreement for allowing Benning to leave (I believe he was still under contract with the Bruins) was that he would stay out of the 2014 draft. 

 

I mean, that's fine if it's true but then why do so many (toxic) media members and fans blame Jim Benning for the Virtanen pick?   You can't have it both ways right?  So now, going by your logic, the only real stinker of a pick that Benning had was Olli Juolevi.   

 

2014:  Not relevant for Jim Benning 

2015:  Boeser

2016:  Juolevi

2017:  Pettersson [pretend Linden overruled Benning]

2018: Hughes

2019: Hoglander + Podkolzin (jury is still out on Podkolzin)

 

-2 home-runs in Hughes and Boeser (should be three if we count Pettersson)

-1 decent pick in Hoglander

-1 failed pick in Juolevi

-1 pick we still don't know (Podz).

 

Miller and Garland were direct results of two 1st round transactions.  

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

 

Quote

Benning was terrible at developing his own players.  Only Demko seemed to survive the AHL and make it to the NHL.  The jury is still out on Podkolzin and Hoglander, but they are now being developed under Allvin's team, so there is hope.

 

And Markstrom.  When Benning was named GM, he determined that Markstrom needed more time to develop in the minors while getting more starts. He saw a benefit in Markstrom working more closely with Ian Clark. If you recall at the time, fans were a little upset because they felt that Lack/Markstrom should have been our tandem while there was no real need to sign Ryan Miller.  Benning clearly made the right call here.   

 

Quote

I don't think you and alot of other people truly realize the amount of work Jim Rutherford had to do when he arrived.  He literally had to change the entire structure of the organization from top to bottom.  Benning left this organization in a complete mess.  The NHL team was a mess, the AHL team was a mess, the scouting department was a mess, the front office was a mess.  Everything had to be fixed from the ground up.  

 

No, I definitely see and appreciate the work that Jim Rutherford had to do when he arrived as President of Hockey Operations, but why only blame Benning here?  Why doesn't Trevor Linden get any blame?  After all, Linden was the President from 2014-2018 right?  What kind of infrastructure did Linden build?  

 

Quote

At the end of the day, Benning made moves to try and simply save his job, he wasn't looking out for the long term interests of this club.  I've seen many GM's come and go over the last 40+ years.  Benning was one of the worst we've ever had.  He was a good amateur scout, which is what he should have been hired for.  But he didn't have a clue in how to run an organization.

 

Well for one thing, Benning was following Ownership's wishes of not going too deep into a rebuild. Secondly, of course Benning and his entourage had a mindful eye for the future.  Why was Higgins replaced with Baertschi?  Why was Bieksa traded for a 2nd?  Why was Burrows traded for Dahlen?  Hansen for Goldobin?  Thomas Vanek for Tyler Motte?   

 

What about 2020 post bubble off-season?  Why did we choose Demko over Markstrom?  Why Virtanen over Toffoli?   Why did we walk from Tanev?  Why, despite our pleasant 2nd round surprise that year, did we need not choose to be more aggressive with our sweeteners in terms of moving bad contracts?  (i.e. Podkolzin as a sweetener to move Sutter, Baertschi, etc.).   By the way, I was NOT fan of the way Benning handled our 2020 post bubble off-season (which is why I ultimately soured on him), but to make a statement that "he wasn't looking out for the long term interests of this club," is ludicrous.  

Quote

 

Pat Quinn and Brian Burke: 

 

 

I completely agree with you on both of those guys but you also have to keep in mind that Benning didn't have much to start with either.  His only good prospect was Horvat (which was developed by Benning by the way).   As mentioned earlier, we also saw how Benning developed Markstrom in the correct way (although I will concede that he screwed up big time with McCann and Virtanen).  Mike Gillis' dreadful amateur scouting was the reason for our barren prospect pool by the way (although I was still a fan of Gillis in many other aspects of the GM role - he helped turn our good team into a great one).  

 

Still, when Benning got here, he was handcuffed with a core that was past their primes, of which many had unmovable contracts (Sedins' + Edler) which would have made deep rebuilding almost impossible.  

 

@Elias Pettersson

Edited November 13, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[iceman1964]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:38 PM, DSVII said:

Don't think this warranted another thread as it was posted in the Linden thread OP. And even there the thought is its not Linden seeking attention more the local media being neurotic about having zero controversy this year.

It's always something with the idiot media in Vancouver... I've seen some far better writing and discussion on the CDC over the years by regular people. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

7 hours ago, iceman1964 said:

It's always something with the idiot media in Vancouver... I've seen some far better writing and discussion on the CDC over the years by regular people. 

 

The hockey media in Vancouver can be quite toxic.  I remember even back in 2017, Dave Pratt was talking about the 2011 Boston Bruins. Constantly.  

 

During the 6 years that had passed, the Kings, Blackhawks, and Penguins had won multiple cups.  Hockey pundits from all over were trying to figure out "the LA, Chicago, and Pittsburgh," models while our media had our noses up Boston's sphincter trying to figure out what they had for breakfast.  

 

"-Tryamkin can be our Chara." 

-"Kassian can be our guy that takes care of Lucic." (LOL by the way)

-"Horvat will be our Patrice Bergeron."

-"Brendan Leipsic can be our Marchand."

-"Jim Benning will make us like Boston."

 

Never before in my life had I ever seen a city so mindfucked over a sporting loss.........and our toxic media contributed significantly to that.  

 

Even after June 15th 2011, what's the first thing I saw when I visited Metrotown mall and walked by Sportschek?  Boston Bruins jerseys in stock right in the front of the shop. Think you would have seen Canucks jerseys being sold in Beantown had we won the cup?

 

 

Edited November 13, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[-dlc-]

Why bring it up now?

 

Linden held his tongue and took the high road when he needed to.  But people have wondered and speculated and he deserves to set things straight according to his account. Some wanted to know how/why things went down and he's taken time to give it space but is clearing the air now and he's really earned the right to do so. It's ok to be honest and transparent. This league needs more of that, not less of it. Remember, he headed the NHLPA and is well respected amongst his peers and has his reputation to protect. People like to talk and try to figure things out and often have it wrong. He's defending his body of work with this club and has every right to do so.

 

He stepped away but is also asked to show up for events like Quinn's captaincy and it's likely a bit awkward considering how things went down and whispers and murmurs. He wants HIS story known...he's a big part of this organization and was long before and will be long after Benning (and company). This is his legacy here, Frank and he's paid his dues. Butt out.

 

Benning's no longer here, so the timing is right. It doesn't impact our team because they don't look at this crap. The team will always have drama swirling around it...just how it is in this city (thanks to guys like Frank who make their living talking). These guys slam Linden for talking yet they continue the conversation long after the fact. They're the ones creating drama....if you "listened to the clip 5 times"....you're looking for stuff...fodder. Dissecting it. If it's horse shit let it go and don't buy in. In one ear out the other. Hypocrite.

 

But no, he goes on to comment about it (rather than doing it Linden's way by taking the high road). 

 

Why do you feel the need to shit on him is right.

 

I love how he goes on about how interviews should stick to talking hockey rather than this stuff but here he is....talking about this horseshit. Double standard. He's not right in my mind....he sounds like a whiney holier than thou'er who sounds bitter about Linden's success but yet here he is making his own living off the backs of these players. Shut up, Frank. 

 

Yes Frank, stick to talking serious hockey...(some real quality content here).

 

[Diamonds]

On 11/12/2023 at 2:27 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Linden said there was a failure with the 2016 draft and that he needed to correct it.  Which is what he did.  If you look at that 2016 draft it was literally the worst draft in franchise history.  Not just talking about Juolevi, it's the entire draft which I am sure Linden was talking about.  At some point, there needed to be accountability for such a shitty draft.  At least Linden was man enough to address it.  In terms of what he said about 2017, it was all true.  Benning had a hard on for Cody Glass.  Of course, he's going to deny it.  Uncle Jim will deny everything until his last breath...

 

2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	5	1	Olli Juolevi	D	London Knights [OHL]	41	2	1	3	6
2016 Entry	64	3	William Lockwood	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	35	0	1	1	11
2016 Entry	140	5	Cole Candella	D	Hamilton Bulldogs [OHL]
2016 Entry	154	6	Jakob Stukel	L	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2016 Entry	184	7	Rodrigo Abols	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2016 Entry	194	7	Brett McKenzie	L	North Bay Battalion [OHL]

Saying it was the worst draft in franchise history is definitely overreacting. It really wasn't that bad of a draft, it just looks much worse because we didn't have a 2nd or 4th round pick. Yes, Juolevi busted but one year later Lockwood had a great freshman year at UMich and was looking fantastic for a 3rd round pick. He has still done well for a 3rd rounder. Then after that it's all 5th-7th round picks which are a crap shoot anyway. Maybe Candella was a bit disappointing but that's only because the Canucks strangely struck gold many times in the 5th round the prior few drafts (Corrado was our most successful pick in 2011 and Hutton our most successful in 2012 plus of course Forsling in 2014 and Gaudette in 2015).

 

The biggest issue with that draft was that we were the 3rd worst team in the league that season and yet had fewer than the standard allotment of picks with no 2nd or 4th rounder.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Diamonds

[iceman1964]

6 hours ago, -dlc- said:

Why bring it up now?

 

Linden held his tongue and took the high road when he needed to.  But people have wondered and speculated and he deserves to set things straight according to his account. Some wanted to know how/why things went down and he's taken time to give it space but is clearing the air now and he's really earned the right to do so. It's ok to be honest and transparent. This league needs more of that, not less of it. Remember, he headed the NHLPA and is well respected amongst his peers and has his reputation to protect. People like to talk and try to figure things out and often have it wrong. He's defending his body of work with this club and has every right to do so.

 

He stepped away but is also asked to show up for events like Quinn's captaincy and it's likely a bit awkward considering how things went down and whispers and murmurs. He wants HIS story known...he's a big part of this organization and was long before and will be long after Benning (and company). This is his legacy here, Frank and he's paid his dues. Butt out.

 

Benning's no longer here, so the timing is right. It doesn't impact our team because they don't look at this crap. The team will always have drama swirling around it...just how it is in this city (thanks to guys like Frank who make their living talking). These guys slam Linden for talking yet they continue the conversation long after the fact. They're the ones creating drama....if you "listened to the clip 5 times"....you're looking for stuff...fodder. Dissecting it. If it's horse shit let it go and don't buy in. In one ear out the other. Hypocrite.

 

But no, he goes on to comment about it (rather than doing it Linden's way by taking the high road). 

 

Why do you feel the need to shit on him is right.

 

I love how he goes on about how interviews should stick to talking hockey rather than this stuff but here he is....talking about this horseshit. Double standard. He's not right in my mind....he sounds like a whiney holier than thou'er who sounds bitter about Linden's success but yet here he is making his own living off the backs of these players. Shut up, Frank. 

 

Yes Frank, stick to talking serious hockey...(some real quality content here).

 

Exactly why I have a strong hate on for media, it started back when Bure went down and Mogilny took the team on his back for about 10-15 games or something and finally was worn down as everyone was taking runs at him, he stopped scoring as much and Bill Good Sr tore into him for the "slump" with a few games without scoring, I remember the look in his eyes, he was never the same for us after that..  it started there, there was zero mention of how he helped us win games we wouldn't have without him. He was in full beast mode and fun to watch! 

Ok wait it started earlier with Danny Galavin? Anyway Montreal's announcer, way back in the day.. Guy Lafleur, Ken Dryden day... 

And back then there was no such thing as clickbait and followers, newspapers & TV were it... Now it's stupid! 

Seems to me nowadays, you don't have to know shite about hockey all that much but if your contraversial, clickity click click! followinggggg.. 

Suckers! Lmao! 

[Jester13]

Why bring it up now?

 

We want Petey to sign. Maybe Petey thinks management doesn't want him bad enough. Let him know through TL that it was Benning who didn't want him and screwed up the relationship between him and management. Now Benning (the problem) is gone. New management loves Petey. We then sign Petey.

 

/ofstory

[iceman1964]

4 hours ago, Jester13 said:

Why bring it up now?

 

We want Petey to sign. Maybe Petey thinks management doesn't want him bad enough. Let him know through TL that it was Benning who didn't want him and screwed up the relationship between him and management. Now Benning (the problem) is gone. New management loves Petey. We then sign Petey.

 

/ofstory

Yet another maybe in there... And a whole lot of assuming added to it, which may it may not be true at all so might want to leave out the maybe part and try and put some truth and logic together and start from there.. wait, your a media hack?? Sounds like it hey? That's exactly how they do it!  Might want to throw a resume' into some sports writing, that would fit right in! 

Edited November 14, 2023 by iceman1964

[Jack Fig]

On 11/11/2023 at 3:32 PM, Bob Long said:

 

blame must be assigned, or some cannot rest. 

 

Rehashing the past is a waste of energy. There's a future to be conquered. 

[AnthonyG]

On 11/11/2023 at 1:38 PM, DSVII said:

Don't think this warranted another thread as it was posted in the Linden thread OP. And even there the thought is its not Linden seeking attention more the local media being neurotic about having zero controversy this year.

Linden didnt need to feed the media’s need for controversy.

[AnthonyG]

On 11/12/2023 at 9:24 PM, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

 

And Markstrom.  When Benning was named GM, he determined that Markstrom needed more time to develop in the minors while getting more starts. He saw a benefit in Markstrom working more closely with Ian Clark. If you recall at the time, fans were a little upset because they felt that Lack/Markstrom should have been our tandem while there was no real need to sign Ryan Miller.  Benning clearly made the right call here.   

 

 

No, I definitely see and appreciate the work that Jim Rutherford had to do when he arrived as President of Hockey Operations, but why only blame Benning here?  Why doesn't Trevor Linden get any blame?  After all, Linden was the President from 2014-2018 right?  What kind of infrastructure did Linden build?  

 

 

Well for one thing, Benning was following Ownership's wishes of not going too deep into a rebuild. Secondly, of course Benning and his entourage had a mindful eye for the future.  Why was Higgins replaced with Baertschi?  Why was Bieksa traded for a 2nd?  Why was Burrows traded for Dahlen?  Hansen for Goldobin?  Thomas Vanek for Tyler Motte?   

 

What about 2020 post bubble off-season?  Why did we choose Demko over Markstrom?  Why Virtanen over Toffoli?   Why did we walk from Tanev?  Why, despite our pleasant 2nd round surprise that year, did we need not choose to be more aggressive with our sweeteners in terms of moving bad contracts?  (i.e. Podkolzin as a sweetener to move Sutter, Baertschi, etc.).   By the way, I was NOT fan of the way Benning handled our 2020 post bubble off-season (which is why I ultimately soured on him), but to make a statement that "he wasn't looking out for the long term interests of this club," is ludicrous.  

 

I completely agree with you on both of those guys but you also have to keep in mind that Benning didn't have much to start with either.  His only good prospect was Horvat (which was developed by Benning by the way).   As mentioned earlier, we also saw how Benning developed Markstrom in the correct way (although I will concede that he screwed up big time with McCann and Virtanen).  Mike Gillis' dreadful amateur scouting was the reason for our barren prospect pool by the way (although I was still a fan of Gillis in many other aspects of the GM role - he helped turn our good team into a great one).  

 

Still, when Benning got here, he was handcuffed with a core that was past their primes, of which many had unmovable contracts (Sedins' + Edler) which would have made deep rebuilding almost impossible.  

 

@Elias Pettersson

You nailed it.

 

Not to mention Benning was hit with 2 expansion drafts, a flat cap and COVID derailed our 2020-21 season completely.

Also Abbotsford Canucks. Thats huge for the future for keeping a very close eye on prospects, which I’m sure Benning had a huge part to play in that. 

[LillStrimma]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

You nailed it.

 

Not to mention Benning was hit with 2 expansion drafts, a flat cap and COVID derailed our 2020-21 season completely.

Also Abbotsford Canucks. Thats huge for the future for keeping a very close eye on prospects, which I’m sure Benning had a huge part to play in that. 

How Abbotsford is developed is due to Allvin. 

[HIWATT]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:52 AM, Canuck You said:

I love this, Seems like as much good we can do there is always a excuse for something..And I am the biggest Linden fan but not now bro...Let a good thing be and stop attention seeking.

 

 

This is just media spin.
Nobody's "shitting" on anyone.

Linden said what he said in a matter of fact way and that was that.
Why would he just come out of nowhere and start telling lies to the media?
There's no reason why he would do that.

Benning's "one of the nicest guys in the world", so... that means he can't make stupid decisions?

We all know exactly how many he made so this isn't some kind of conspiracy, lol.
Media are so desperate to hear their own voices they make shit up based on how they FEEL about things, instead of just stating facts.

Was what Linden said true, or not? 
I'll believe him way before I believe Benning, I'll tell you that for free. 







 

[AnthonyG]

29 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

How Abbotsford is developed is due to Allvin. 

Abby was here before Allvin.

2021-22 was their inaugural season. Thats a Jim Benning thing.

[LillStrimma]

26 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Abby was here before Allvin.

2021-22 was their inaugural season. Thats a Jim Benning thing.

Yes, but didn't Allvin do some changes in the organisation?

[DSVII]

5 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Yes, but didn't Allvin do some changes in the organisation?

 

New head coach, new strength and conditioning coach, new goalie coach.

 

They hired Jeremy Colition for Abbotsford to replace Cull, he's been great with the team since he joined the org. 

[LillStrimma]

11 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

New head coach, new strength and conditioning coach, new goalie coach.

 

They hired Jeremy Colition for Abbotsford to replace Cull, he's been great with the team since he joined the org. 

Didn't he also involve Sedins, Samuelsson and more people to guide, motivate, help etc both in Abby and where our prospects play? 

[DSVII]

Just now, LillStrimma said:

Didn't he also involve Sedins, Samuelsson and more people to guide, motivate, help etc both in Abby and where our prospects play? 

Yep! I'm just not sure when they started off the top of my head. 

3 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Linden didnt need to feed the media’s need for controversy.

 

No, but after a few days it's kinda died down. No harm, no foul. 

[AnthonyG]

32 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Didn't he also involve Sedins, Samuelsson and more people to guide, motivate, help etc both in Abby and where our prospects play? 

 

 

31 minutes ago, DSVII said:

Yep! I'm just not sure when they started off the top of my head. 

 

No, but after a few days it's kinda died down. No harm, no foul. 

2021.

Benning hired the twins as special advisors to the GM.

 

 

 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/canucks-hire-daniel-and-henrik-sedin-as-special-advisors-to-the-general-manager-3898002

Edited November 14, 2023 by AnthonyG

[DSVII]

7 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

 

 

2021.

Benning hired the twins as special advisors to the GM.

 

 

 

https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/canucks-hire-daniel-and-henrik-sedin-as-special-advisors-to-the-general-manager-3898002

 

May 2022, Yes and it was Allvin who deployed them out of hockey operations to player development in Abbotsford. 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-move-daniel-and-henrik-sedin-to-player-development-department/

 

 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by DSVII

[AnthonyG]

32 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

 

No, but after a few days it's kinda died down. No harm, no foul. 

Its just odd to throw someone completely under the bus, this far down the road. Its classless. Why stir up drama for a guy YOU hired?

 

What I’m surprised I havent seen anyone mention or talk much about is this quote by Linden 

“I really pushed hard in that management group to have Judd and his guys make the pick. And Judd — and give [Vancouver scout] Ronnie Delorme a lot of credit as well — they loved this guy and so, Jim wasn’t sold… if Jim had his choice he probably would’ve taken a different player,” Linden continued.

 

Was Benning given full autonomy to make his own picks, or was this a hint that Ownership was meddling?Ultimately Benning or whoever picked Pettersson. I cannot for the life of me, understand why there is such a fuss about us picking Pettersson??? We picked him end of story. It’s ridiculous that there is this much talk/discussion/hate and resentment towards JB for considering drafting Glass who was ranked higher than EP consistently. He was informed of Pettersson and sent Delorme AND Brackett to both go and follow Pettersson closely. He did his due diligence and made sure we picked the right player. Thank you JB for taking the time to seriously consider a guy whos average rank was 11th and investing in scouting him very closely.

[AnthonyG]

4 minutes ago, DSVII said:

 

May 2022, Yes and it was Allvin who deployed them out of hockey operations to player development in Abbotsford. 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-move-daniel-and-henrik-sedin-to-player-development-department/

 

 

 

 

Correct but Benning never got that far to even make that change. He brought them on and was let go shortly after. 
Benning ultimately brought in the twins, there should he recognition and credit given where it is due

[DSVII]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Its just odd to throw someone completely under the bus, this far down the road. Its classless. Why stir up drama for a guy YOU hired?

 

Again we may never know. I think it has to do with the the circumstances of his departure. 

 

Benning was popular with Aquilini, Francesco said his dad loved Benning. Linden wanted to go the rebuild route in 2017, Benning sold them on making playoffs. Maybe it was because the guy he hired threw him under the bus in front of ownership that resulted in his departure. Speculation of course, but the fact that Linden felt the need to say this and that another scout backed Linden up feels like it's been brewing for a while.

 

It was a dysfunctional organization. Think we can all agree there.

 

 

Quote

What I’m surprised I havent seen anyone mention or talk much about is this quote by Linden 

“I really pushed hard in that management group to have Judd and his guys make the pick. And Judd — and give [Vancouver scout] Ronnie Delorme a lot of credit as well — they loved this guy and so, Jim wasn’t sold… if Jim had his choice he probably would’ve taken a different player,” Linden continued.

 

Was Benning given full autonomy to make his own picks, or was this a hint that Ownership was meddling?Ultimately Benning or whoever picked Pettersson. I cannot for the life of me, understand why there is such a fuss about us picking Pettersson??? We picked him end of story. It’s ridiculous that there is this much talk/discussion/hate and resentment towards JB for considering drafting Glass who was ranked higher than EP consistently. He was informed of Pettersson and sent Delorme AND Brackett to both go and follow Pettersson closely. He did his due diligence and made sure we picked the right player. Thank you JB for taking the time to seriously consider a guy whos average rank was 11th and investing in scouting him very closely.

 

And I'm glad Benning listened to other people on his staff and learned from 2016. I'd give him even more credit if he had continued this after Trevor left, but he pushed his head scout out shortly after and proceeded to go down the path that led him to being canned. 

 

I'm not saying Petey isn't a feather in his cap, but my opinion of JB as a scout has gone down with this info. I think the game has grown past him.

 

Also, the pro Benning crowd was given a decade to voice their resentment of Gillis despite all he's done. The statute of limitations on Benning is going to last at least just as long, if not longer since the dead cap to clean his mess is on the books till 2031

 

[DSVII]

14 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Correct but Benning never got that far to even make that change. He brought them on and was let go shortly after. 
Benning ultimately brought in the twins, there should he recognition and credit given where it is due

 

I just want to note that this is high irony, because this is basically the argument for why people shouldn't blame Gillis leaving the empty farm system and scouting department unchanged after the cup run. 

 

And of course I agree, Benning bringing the twins in was a plus for the org.