Should Garland be moved up ?

[Googlie]

2 hours ago, iceman1964 said:

If Garland was 6-6'2 and 200 pounds then yes but no, like Alf said, Garland isn't a bad player, he just doesn't fit well with us, wish it weren't so but it is...

 

Will we be saying that in a couple of years about Hoagie too?

[The Duke]

I don’t see the need to switch anything up just yet.  All 4 lines have had their moments.

 

Petey, Miller, Suter and Bleuger are all great two way guys.  Kuzmenko, Boeser, Garland and Hoglander are all top 6 quality skill guys but have bought into a two way game and Mikheyev, PDG, Joshua and Lafferty have decent size, grit and speed.

 

It usually never works out this way but the lines are surprisingly balanced.  

You can always ask for more (a good RH C, a bit more speed / size, a bigger body that likes to drop the mitts) but this is by far the most complete 4 line team we’ve deployed since Sedin-Kesler-Malhotra-Lapierre. 
 

(I would say that group had a stronger 3rd line, but I’d take the Miller line over the Kesler line as they’re currently playing.  Prime Sedins clear Petey by a bit, though.  Not sure about 4th line.)

Edited November 14, 2023 by The Duke

[Drakrami]

Well people need to realize Garland and Hoglander has been moved up before throughout the years and not much was generated and close to 0 chemistry. 

[wai_lai416]

7 hours ago, Alflives said:

Didn’t Kuz Missile score 39 last year? What’s Garlsnd’s highest scoring year? 

kuz is prolly on pace to shatter garland's total goal and points in his entire career by next season. the only thing i like about garland is he works hard.. but he's a terrible point producer that have trouble producing against good teams. he's very good at getting points against the bad teams.. but struggles to produce agains the good teams.. he's been like that his entire career. he tries to carry the puck too much for too long.. hence he's terrible fit on the top 2 line.. or terrible fit overall on the canucks like you mentioned 

[TopCheese]

We now have a great 3rd Line u keep those boyz together and keep buzzin 

[iceman1964]

3 hours ago, Googlie said:

 

Will we be saying that in a couple of years about Hoagie too?

Hardly, Hogs can throw one F of a hit, Garland isn't really that physical where Hogs definitely is when he has the chance.

Edited November 14, 2023 by iceman1964

[Jeremy Hronek]

10 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

I have always been a believer in Conor Garland.  He is a crafty playmaker with a very unique playing style.  Watch him closely and he makes excellent plays on both sides of the ice.  He puts very good passes into the slot - although his teammates haven't converted many chances yet, they are expected to come.

 

 

I don't know if he's a good fit on this team per se, but I think he should absolutely be bumped up to the line with Miller.  Do I think Tocchet is going to demote Di Giuseppe, his favourite player?  I hope he does.  Di Giuseppe is a hard-working defensive winger and the hustle he brings is a better fit on the third line.

 

 

This is an excellent post and I'm glad you made this.

 

Agree with you 1000% that we should consider switching Garland and PDG.  

 

Give the line a look and see what happens.  

[Miss Korea]

5 hours ago, J-23 said:

You do realize that Giuseppe’s basic stats are better. More goal, more points and a better plus/minus.

 

But like I said initially anyone that watches the game knows why Giuseppe is on that Miller line and Garland is on the Suter line. Fits well with Miller and Boeser, playing against other teams best players, on pace for 40 points, penalty kill, no power-play time, part of one the best shutdown lines, and good defensively. Doing all this making less than one million.

 

Garland fits well with Suter right now. That’s why that line is doing so well.

 

5 hours ago, J-23 said:

Well, my initial post was really just based on the eye test but everyone wants to compare stats and advanced stats so desperately.

 

Line chemistry is a thing. Giuseppe is the best fit for the Miller line. Garland is the best fit for the Suter line. There is a reason why both lines are doing so well, especially the Suter line now.

 

I will defend Giuseppe though. He’s outworked a lot of players and earned his spot and I think a lot of people having a hard time accepting that. I don’t get why. I can understand if he wasn’t putting up points, but he has 7 points in 15 games so far.

 

Anyways both players are great for the team and I’d like to see Garland stay, but I also understand the cap reasons as to why they want to trade him.

 

4 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

This is an excellent post and I'm glad you made this.

 

Agree with you 1000% that we should consider switching Garland and PDG.  

 

Give the line a look and see what happens.  

 

If the Canucks continue to play well, I don't expect too many changes in our top six, and I don't expect Di Giuseppe to lose his spot.  The one thing that might happen is Kuzmenko falling down the chart and then Garland put back on the Pettersson line.  

 

Di Giuseppe fits the Tocchet system like a glove.  Every coach has their favourites, and Pizza boy is definitely one of them.  That's why people are hesitant - they see another Linden Vey or Jayson Megna.  Now, this time you have an extremely hard worker who has put up impressive defensive metrics, along with some decent chemistry on the second line.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the chemistry argument.  Garland hasn't fit in while Di Giuseppe has.  I just think Garland is an excellent alternative and his playmaking talent is underutilized on the third line.  Those who are dismissive of his ability on a nightly basis... should pay closer attention and watch the impact he has on the game.

[Jeremy Hronek]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

 

 

 

 I just think Garland is an excellent alternative and his playmaking talent is underutilized on the third line.  Those who are dismissive of his ability on a nightly basis... should pay closer attention and watch the impact he has on the game.

 

I'm interested to see if our 3rd line has a spike in offensive productivity now that Bluegar is back in the fold.  

Suter-Bluegar-Garland has the potential to be a pretty good 3rd line.

[DownUndaCanuck]

He has 2 goals in 15 games and just 5 points. He costs us 5M. That's good for 10 goals and 27 points. I think if we called up Bains he'd score more for us for a fifth of the cost.

 

Simply put he's got to go. We even tried to get his old coach in to fire him up and that hasn't worked.

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, JeremyCuddles said:

You breaking up our shutdown line that has been our best all year so far or demoting Kuzy/Mikheyev? Neither of which can likely function away from Petey.

Actually it's Millers line that Tochett has been using against the leagues best ...

 

Agree that Tochett won't need to mess with EPs line, but the OP does have a point.   Garland has been playing very well, was one of the few guys against OTT who didn't need waking up.    Had three of I think 9 high danger chances,  just couldn't finish (all of which he created as well).   It's possible Garlands game is coming together, guy wasn't drafted and then led the CHL in scoring.   It's not like he doesn't have elite skills, he absolutely does.      Mikheyev is giving EPs line a boost,  so leave it alone,  that said he's also a player that does a third line role extremely well.   

 

If anything, Garland could be playing himself into a trade right now.    That would be tough though ... he gives the 3rd line teeth.    Also think an extended look with Garland on EPs line would be interesting.    IF Garland can figure out how to use his EPs skillset properly, could see EPs game going to another level.    Garland has some Cliff Ronning in him, as in the ability to turn on a dime and dipsy doodle around big bodies in traffic.  

 

Id say Kuzmenko wouldn't function well on the third line.    Mikheyev absolutely can.    That said Tocchet is going with the exact same line combo's he should be.    The longer these guys play with each other, the better they should become. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

He has 2 goals in 15 games and just 5 points. He costs us 5M. That's good for 10 goals and 27 points. I think if we called up Bains he'd score more for us for a fifth of the cost.

 

Simply put he's got to go. We even tried to get his old coach in to fire him up and that hasn't worked.

Garlands game is fine.   He's not costing us goals, and he's playing with guys who won't add much offense.    Beau is the guy we need to trade. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

 

 

If the Canucks continue to play well, I don't expect too many changes in our top six, and I don't expect Di Giuseppe to lose his spot.  The one thing that might happen is Kuzmenko falling down the chart and then Garland put back on the Pettersson line.  

 

Di Giuseppe fits the Tocchet system like a glove.  Every coach has their favourites, and Pizza boy is definitely one of them.  That's why people are hesitant - they see another Linden Vey or Jayson Megna.  Now, this time you have an extremely hard worker who has put up impressive defensive metrics, along with some decent chemistry on the second line.

 

I'm not disagreeing with the chemistry argument.  Garland hasn't fit in while Di Giuseppe has.  I just think Garland is an excellent alternative and his playmaking talent is underutilized on the third line.  Those who are dismissive of his ability on a nightly basis... should pay closer attention and watch the impact he has on the game.

Garland himself is absolutely fine.   You need some depth, and he's a guy who when moved up should help the team not lose a beat.   He's also by far the most creative player on the third line.    If they aren't scoring, they are usually running the clock down and keeping possession in the o-zone, tiring out the defenders.    It's working.  Garlands minutes are down to 12:54.   Past five games he's a plus four.    Not once a minus.     Garland gives Tochett options.   The Angry Elf is a little overpaid, and we do need to trade someone.   Beau or Garland ...  

Edited November 14, 2023 by IBatch

[DownUndaCanuck]

On 11/14/2023 at 1:46 PM, IBatch said:

Garlands game is fine.   He's not costing us goals, and he's playing with guys who won't add much offense.    Beau is the guy we need to trade. 

 

We really should get rid of both of them. 9M is basically a star player or a top-4 defenceman and 3rd line winger.

[Viper007]

Canucks tried and it didn’t work out against the flames.  Let’s put this one to rest!  The answer is NO!

[TheGuardian]

Moved up?

NO

Moved out.

 

StLouis is burning. Last year they were shopping quite a few players out and the "talk" was they were kicking around a rebuild or retool. That may have changed now.

 

That said a Garland for Buchnevich deal might be possible. Garland does carry the puck a lot and has some dash.

He would likely get a lot more points there on the PP.

 

They would save some cap space and could ask the Canucks for a few smaller sweeteners. Canucks could add PDG and a 3rd or 4th round pick. They could do more if they feel the window is open for 2-3 years.

 

St Louis just waived Vrana too so they could be positioning to reduce their point total.

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

Moved up?

NO

Moved out.

 

StLouis is burning. Last year they were shopping quite a few players out and the "talk" was they were kicking around a rebuild or retool. That may have changed now.

 

That said a Garland for Buchnevich deal might be possible. Garland does carry the puck a lot and has some dash.

He would likely get a lot more points there on the PP.

 

They would save some cap space and could ask the Canucks for a few smaller sweeteners. Canucks could add PDG and a 3rd or 4th round pick. They could do more if they feel the window is open for 2-3 years.

 

St Louis just waived Vrana too so they could be positioning to reduce their point total.

Buchnevic makes 5.8.    Bit of a swiss army knife, he's a solid player.   Who does he bump?  Hogs or Lafferty?     St. louis would have to retain as well.  

Edited December 15, 2023 by IBatch

[HKSR]

14 hours ago, TheGuardian said:

Moved up?

NO

Moved out.

 

StLouis is burning. Last year they were shopping quite a few players out and the "talk" was they were kicking around a rebuild or retool. That may have changed now.

 

That said a Garland for Buchnevich deal might be possible. Garland does carry the puck a lot and has some dash.

He would likely get a lot more points there on the PP.

 

They would save some cap space and could ask the Canucks for a few smaller sweeteners. Canucks could add PDG and a 3rd or 4th round pick. They could do more if they feel the window is open for 2-3 years.

 

St Louis just waived Vrana too so they could be positioning to reduce their point total.

Given the chemistry and effectiveness of that 3rd line, I'd sooner move Mikheyev or Kuzmenko for Buchnevich than Garland.  

[TheGuardian]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Buchnevic makes 5.8.    Bit of a swiss army knife, he's a solid player.   Who does he bump?  Hogs or Lafferty?     St. louis would have to retain as well.  

Put him with Kuzmenko and make a solid third line? Suter or Bluger at center. Garland is too much a puck hog, that is not necessarily a bad thing but this suggested line is more team reliant for Tocchet's system.

Also is Buch is more tradeable and a shorter term on his contract so he could be trade bait that can actually be traded with a positive result.

Canucks were willing to retain some to move Garland.

 

Nothing wrong with having a real 3rd scoring threat

[TheGuardian]

4 hours ago, HKSR said:

Given the chemistry and effectiveness of that 3rd line, I'd sooner move Mikheyev or Kuzmenko for Buchnevich than Garland.  

Garland has 10 pts in 30 games, Mik is still recovering from knee surgery, takes a while for total recovery but he has 9 goals, Kuzmenko after a head shot has 17 points this year

Last year Gar - 46pts Mik - 58 gms, 28pts on one leg Kuz - 74 pts

 

This is a Garland thread but IMO they need to move out over ten million and term to fit into whatever plan they have. There is something because all their contracts end in the next two years just when OEL buyout doubles. Sort of like setting up for a clean slate to have the most cap space or restart with the least commitments.

 

It could be if Pettersson decides he want elsewhere then they are set up to rebuild in year 3. IT doesn't take forever, again expansion teams and others LA for instance. Even the retooling of this team, what? 18 months? If they have the cap space they might get McDavid, Draisaitl or ??? in FA just because they have the cap space.

Edited December 15, 2023 by TheGuardian