The mysterious drastic decline of Jake Virtanen

[Bob Long]

58 minutes ago, grumpyone said:

would've love to see what THIS batch of coaches could've done to his career 

 

Benched him, in all likelihood.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

The year is 2020.  

 

After getting off to a shaky start in his career, Jake Virtanen has finally 'made it.'

 

Despite getting limited PP time and 3rd line minutes for the most part, Jake Virtanen has 18 goals and 18 assists for 36 points.   

 

The guy is finally using his size and speed to his advantage and while his hockey IQ still leaves a lot to be desired, it's not nearly the liability that it once was.

 

And then the 2020 covid lockdown occurs.     

 

Bubble play-ins are announced many months later and Jake shows up to training camp way out of shape..........and he's never the same player ever again.  

 

Absolutely shits the bed during the 2020/2021 shortened season and is rightfully told to fuck off after the season.  

 

So my dear Nucks fans, I ask you the following:  

 

What the heck happened to Jake Virtanen?

 

While we can all sit back and criticize Jim Benning for taking a calculated gamble on Jake Virtanen during the 2020 post-bubble off-season, it's not like Benning didn't have good reason to (again, 18 goals + 18 assists with primarily 3rd line minutes + limited PP time in 2019/2020).  

 

The guy clearly looked like he had turned a corner.........and then he pissed it all away.  

 

Damn shame....

 

[Fan Abroad]

1 hour ago, tas said:

no coach in history has wanted their team to play soft. 

maybe not intentionally

[Miss Korea]

Fans: let's re-sign Tofu he's been fantastic

 

 

Jet Black Jim: we have something even better

 

[Don Brodka Jr]

Jake Virtanen was NEVER that good to begin with! He never should have been a 1st Round Pick let alone a Top 10 pick. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Don Brodka Jr said:

Jake Virtanen was NEVER that good to begin with! He never should have been a 1st Round Pick let alone a Top 10 pick. 

Benning picked Jake to put his stamp on the team. 

[Chicken.]

The hit on mcdavid at the young stars tourny was the highlight of his career

 

 

[tas]

8 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

The hit on mcdavid at the young stars tourny was the highlight of his career

 

 

the buyout at the end was pretty satisfying. 

[LillStrimma]

37 minutes ago, spook007 said:

I wanted Ehlers... badly...

 

However, I understand, why they wanted Jake... We had just been murdered by Boston, and had zero prospect with beef on them.

It speaks volume of your hatred towards Benning, that you attack the man at every opportunity...

 

A big physical player that scores goals.... guess who that is?...

 

I was disappointed, when I heard, we picked Virtanen, as I was sure Ehlers was out man... Can't remember the name of the poster, who kept banging the drum for Ehlers, but he sold him to me.

 

Nevertheless, while progressing slowly, and he did progress every year, he obviously never reached the heights that could have been, however McCann did, and he didn't do it over night neither. Talk about dumb... on the night he was drafted 'it is what it is', was what he mustered. It took him 4 teams to figure it out. Not all drafted players becomes stars within 4-5 years, and Jake was really young. Too young probably... Lost the plot...

btw Jake was not the only one who didn't make it in top 6...

Attack the man, please enlight me of another GM so stupid.

To hire Ferland with so much concussions so no insurance company dared insure him.
 

It can be another thing. That Benning used the Canucks for his own purposes and didn’t give a damn about the Canucks. 
That can explain why he made such stupid player deals/trades. 
 

Regarding Jake, in the due diligence process you have interviews, check how school work out etc. The scouts must have known Jakes status.

 

I’ve said on CDC I could be a head hunter for the Canucks. That’s because it was a lot of fans that didn’t see what benning did.

Now it’s not needed because Allvin has got rid of the Utica sickness Benning defended.  You probably noticed how effective Allvin neutralised the Utica coach and got rid of him while installing all the extra coaches invluding the Sedins so what happened in Utica won’t happen again. This is a million dollar business and clowns and idiots stay away.
The little bit about Dahlen that makes people like you think I’m bias when I’m using an objective analysis of the situation and have strong ideas how a leader should act in all situations.

 

And the reason why I use stronger adjectives at the end is the bashing of Linden.

Linden is way above Benning as a leader, in honesty and whatever you can think of. 
So if anyone talks shit about Linden I go harder on Benning and shoe how bad he was. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

27 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Benning picked Jake to put his stamp on the team. 

 

But according to our good friend @Elias Pettersson, et al, Benning had nothing to with the 2014 draft because he was in Boston at the time, and his condition for being a part of the Bruins' organization that year was that he wasn't allowed to partake in any scouting or drafting meetings (and hence, Benning does not get credit for Demko). 

 

Or are we just going to do with the toxic media in Vancouver does?   (i.e. Blame Benning for the Virtanen pick but praise Judd Bracket and (Thomas Drance?) for selecting Demko, McCann, and Forsling?

Edited November 14, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[AnthonyG]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

The year is 2020.  

 

After getting off to a shaky start in his career, Jake Virtanen has finally 'made it.'

 

Despite getting limited PP time and 3rd line minutes for the most part, Jake Virtanen has 18 goals and 18 assists for 36 points.   

 

The guy is finally using his size and speed to his advantage and while his hockey IQ still leaves a lot to be desired, it's not nearly the liability that it once was.

 

And then the 2020 covid lockdown occurs.     

 

Bubble play-ins are announced many months later and Jake shows up to training camp way out of shape..........and he's never the same player ever again.  

 

Absolutely shits the bed during the 2020/2021 shortened season and is rightfully told to fuck off after the season.  

 

So my dear Nucks fans, I ask you the following:  

 

What the heck happened to Jake Virtanen?

 

While we can all sit back and criticize Jim Benning for taking a calculated gamble on Jake Virtanen during the 2020 post-bubble off-season, it's not like Benning didn't have good reason to (again, 18 goals + 18 assists with primarily 3rd line minutes + limited PP time in 2019/2020).  

 

The guy clearly looked like he had turned a corner.........and then he pissed it all away.  

 

Damn shame....

I’ve dove into this several times on the old forums to explain to the clueless people who just love to shit all over Virtanen.

 

Virtanen’s production rarely saw any increase in ice time. Never really given PP1 time, no favourable offensive zone starts and less ice time in the end.

 

2015-16

All situations 55.2%oZS

7G 6A 11:34TOI

 

2017-18

All situations 45.2%oZS

10G 10A 11:59TOI

 

2018-19

All situations 49.1%oZS 

15G 10A 14:49TOI

 

2019-20

All situations 55.1%oZS

18G 18A 13:05TOI

 

2020-21

All situations 39.6%oZS

5G 0A 39.6%oZS

 

 

As you can see, his production increased, his icetime began to increase and then for whatever reason they beganf reducing his TOI, plus his zone starts drop 16% from the ozone and that is then allocated to the dzone. IMHO he was mishandled, however perhaps they saw better defensive zone numbers which is what led to more dzone time. Which if you look… he is rarely scored on, has few giveaways and plenty of takeaways.

 

Our goalies sv% with Virtanen on the ice

2015-16 .897sv%
2016-17 .1000sv%(10GP)

2017-18 .911sv%
2018-19 .925sv%
2019-20 .927sv%
2020-21 .959sv%
 

 

[Odd.]

1 hour ago, SV. said:

The Virtanen pick was a product of its time, unfortunately.

Rather than looking at the build of the Blackhawks or Penguins, people decided that the Bruins and Kings were better to emulate.  "Built for the playoffs" is what they said.

Then, you factor in the context.  Canucks went from a playoff position in January to a near bottom-five finish by the time April rolled around, Luongo left the team controversially, Kesler all but confirmed to be leaving, Gillis getting fired, etc., that with Virtanen being a local kid and a fan of the team, he could "stabilize" some of the chaos that was ongoing.

I don't think the core issue was selecting him over a Nylander/Ehlers/Larkin as evidenced by the fact that many teams were hoodwinked in that period of time with size.  Michael Dal Colle, Nick Ritchie, and Brendan Perlini all come to mind as players who went high but didn't reach the heights they were meant to be reaching.  An argument could also be made for Sam Bennett and Lawson Crouse, although, they have become much more effective players in recent seasons and found their niches, especially in the case of Bennett.

Where the main issue lies is in sticking by Virtanen for so long when there was proof that he simply wasn't good enough.  When it became clear he wasn't a legit fit for the top six by the end of 18/19 and could maybe be effective in an energy role going forward, that's when he should have been pushed down the pecking order and treated as such.  Choosing to sign him over Tyler Toffoli, an actual proven scorer, for example, caused needless damage and harm to the state of the team.  The fact that it took off-ice issues to finally part ways rather than on-ice play speaks so much to some of the sheer incompetence that was going on towards the end of the Benning tenure.

Crouse was drafted in 2015. 
 

Virtanen was just a terrible pick from

the beginning. Kid came into the league acting like he was entitled to a roster spot. Spoiled all his life. Was used to half assing in junior and just getting by with his speed and size. Never had the brains, but he also never had the professionalism and dedication. 

[Barn Burner]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

One of the biggest disappointments for sure, but busts?  I think the answer here is "yes with an 'if' or no with a but."

 

Jake Virtanen wasn't exactly Olli Juolevi or Alex Stojanov as far as busts go.  

 

The kid still put up 100 points in his brief NHL career.  

 

He could have and should have done so much more though.         

 

No idea what happened to him during the initial covid lock-down.  

 

Mental health issues?

It could be, but addiction is a hardcore problem too. 

 

And lack of maturity. 

 

You're right. It looked like he was turning the corner, in a good way. But after the incident with the law, he was let go and it's all been downhill from there. 

 

He never understood how fortunate he was to be in the position he was in, and never acted like a pro. 

 

He has no one to blame, except himself. 

 

I've met ex-players, who almost made it, and there appears to be an issue with "blow" and alcoholism. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

I’ve dove into this several times on the old forums to explain to the clueless people who just love to shit all over Virtanen.

 

Virtanen’s production rarely saw any increase in ice time. Never really given PP1 time, no favourable offensive zone starts and less ice time in the end.

 

2015-16

All situations 55.2%oZS

7G 6A 11:34TOI

 

2017-18

All situations 45.2%oZS

10G 10A 11:59TOI

 

2018-19

All situations 49.1%oZS 

15G 10A 14:49TOI

 

2019-20

All situations 55.1%oZS

18G 18A 13:05TOI

 

2020-21

All situations 39.6%oZS

5G 0A 39.6%oZS

 

 

As you can see, his production increased, his icetime began to increase and then for whatever reason they beganf reducing his TOI, plus his zone starts drop 16% from the ozone and that is then allocated to the dzone. IMHO he was mishandled, however perhaps they saw better defensive zone numbers which is what led to more dzone time. Which if you look… he is rarely scored on, has few giveaways and plenty of takeaways.

 

Our goalies sv% with Virtanen on the ice

2015-16 .897sv%
2016-17 .1000sv%(10GP)

2017-18 .911sv%
2018-19 .925sv%
2019-20 .927sv%
2020-21 .959sv%
 

 

 

Those are really interesting advanced stats and I'm glad you posted these.

 

For the life, I just can't fathom as to why Jake just fell off a cliff.   The guy was pretty damn good in 2020 and no, I don't buy some of the other arguments that he was being fed sheltered minutes (like Adam Gaudette was).  Virtanen looked good in 2020.  18 goals + 18 assists + limited PP time + mainly 3rd line minutes.  I just don't understand what happened to him in the 20/21 season and beyond.  Did Covid take too much of a toll on his mental health?

[Provost]

This is silly… the guy was crap his entire career except for a short stretch of play for about a third of a season where everything aligned and he put up some points.

 

It is weird that people somehow ignore everything before and after… but seem to think that little short stretch of good play he had was the “real” Virtanen.

 

He showed up out of shape before the bubble, no one can blame Covid for him repeating behaviour he showed before it existed.

 

I was jumping up and down when he had this blip that we needed to trade him fast before he regressed to his real level of play.  We had a chance to salvage some value from a wasted pick.

 

 

[Bob Long]

49 minutes ago, Don Brodka Jr said:

Jake Virtanen was NEVER that good to begin with! He never should have been a 1st Round Pick let alone a Top 10 pick. 

 

Craig Button had it nailed, late 2nd rounder. Even that seems high in hindsight.

 

 

[iinatcc]

51 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

Fans: let's re-sign Tofu he's been fantastic

 

 

Jet Black Jim: we have something even better

 

 

Shhhh ... don't tell people that here.

Either Toffoli has been traded  2 teams (as if it was his fault  ) or because he didn't score in the SCF againts Tampa. 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by iinatcc

[-AJ-]

Not only did he score 18 goals and 36 points, he did it in just 70 games, indicating he could score 20 goals.

 

That said, he was particularly inconsistent that year and scored in bunches, which was a little worrying. His usage that year was slightly favourable with about 55% OZS, but not off the charts in that zone. If I wasn't at work, I'd do a deeper dive. Sounds like a fun research project.

[MeanSeanBean]

Mysterious, my ass. Jake was visibly lazy and unmotivated if you followed the Canucks at even a casual level. On top of have no work ethic, there was constant reports about him being an entitled, shitty person all accumulating to finally being accused of raping someone.

 

Screw that bum.

[Gurn]

Bad last season playing for the  Calgary  ownedjunior team, led to him being rushed up to the NHL; as it was NHL or back to junior.

Calgary had no desire to help him out as he was already drafted by Van.

Also, not a very smart guy.

Shoulder injury.

 

All contributing factors.

[LillStrimma]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

I’ve dove into this several times on the old forums to explain to the clueless people who just love to shit all over Virtanen.

 

Virtanen’s production rarely saw any increase in ice time. Never really given PP1 time, no favourable offensive zone starts and less ice time in the end.

 

2015-16

All situations 55.2%oZS

7G 6A 11:34TOI

 

2017-18

All situations 45.2%oZS

10G 10A 11:59TOI

 

2018-19

All situations 49.1%oZS 

15G 10A 14:49TOI

 

2019-20

All situations 55.1%oZS

18G 18A 13:05TOI

 

2020-21

All situations 39.6%oZS

5G 0A 39.6%oZS

 

 

As you can see, his production increased, his icetime began to increase and then for whatever reason they beganf reducing his TOI, plus his zone starts drop 16% from the ozone and that is then allocated to the dzone. IMHO he was mishandled, however perhaps they saw better defensive zone numbers which is what led to more dzone time. Which if you look… he is rarely scored on, has few giveaways and plenty of takeaways.

 

Our goalies sv% with Virtanen on the ice

2015-16 .897sv%
2016-17 .1000sv%(10GP)

2017-18 .911sv%
2018-19 .925sv%
2019-20 .927sv%
2020-21 .959sv%
 

 

I’ve only seen two forwards running around like a blind hen. Vittanen and MacEwan.

 

Pouliot in D. Poor Gudbranson gotgray hair trying to cope with Pouliot.

 

[VforVasili]

Personally, I blame the Church of V. 
 

Went to his head. 
 

Predictably, the church was brought down by a sex scandal and here we find ourselves. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

54 minutes ago, Provost said:

This is silly… the guy was crap his entire career except for a short stretch of play for about a third of a season where everything aligned and he put up some points.

 

 

 

 

 

Do you think you are exaggerating a little here?  18 goals + 18 assists with little to no PP time + mainly 3rd line minutes hardly seems indicative of someone that "good for a short stretch of play lasting about a third of the season" (although his drastic decline would align with your narrative).   Meh.  Like Benning, I genuinely thought Virtanen had turned a corner.  I was wrong. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

33 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Not only did he score 18 goals and 36 points, he did it in just 70 games, indicating he could score 20 goals.

 

That said, he was particularly inconsistent that year and scored in bunches, which was a little worrying. His usage that year was slightly favourable with about 55% OZS, but not off the charts in that zone. If I wasn't at work, I'd do a deeper dive. Sounds like a fun research project.

 

Please do.  I'd be interested to see this myself.  

[-AJ-]

Just now, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Please do.  I'd be interested to see this myself.  

 

I think it will be fairly easy to determine what changed, but figuring out why may be more difficult.