[GDT] - November 15th 2023 - Canucks vs Islanders @ Rogers Arena - 7:00 PM PDT - SNP, AM650 - Bo-o Horvat Edition

[Barnstorm]

9 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

To be fair, if Vancouver was playing that bad, would you want to go to games?

I wasn’t suggesting the fans should be there. 
If two NHL teams can’t come close to filling the lower bowl I’d say there’s a problem with the product and the location. These are Bettman’s pet projects, they’re not strong hockey markets, fair weather only. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

42 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

2 wins and 1 loss is iffy? Or just not happy the Canucks were not playing their systems like they normally do?

Brian Burke:  "I will not judge or make an assessment of Mike Keenan as head coach until he's had a chance to work with the assets from any Pavel Bure trade.  It would not be fair to him"

 

Vancouver Canucks go to a 1-1 record after the Pavel Bure trade.  Burke fires Mike Keenan soon after the loss.

 

[Barnstorm]

3 minutes ago, RWJC said:

or working…?

use escrow revenue to continue propping up US based teams so that even if live attendance is poor, the revenue generated through TV contracts - and the increased exposure correlated with advertising revenue ops, pushes this league forward. Corporate sponsorship helps pay the bills. The league also then can utilize tv media to assist in controlling its narrative and overall management, which in turn is contrived and executed upon ultimately by Gary Bettman. 

His success will be exhibited by whether he can continue to grow the media share for the league, and by extension, the above mentioned income. It makes sense for him and all the owners, even of Canadian clubs, to not question because GB is making the owners MONEY right now. Franchise fees and values are at an all time high, revenues on the rise. Mainstream exposure against other sports markets and still maintaining decent ratings. He’s grown the game…

 

Hate to say it but the plan IS working regardless. It’s why ARZ has been allowed to be what it is. An embarrassment. But yet the league is thriving in spite of it. These teams will get transfusions because of their media/TV deal value. Simple and a shitty part of the truth about this league. But it is what it is. Can’t be perfect. 
 

Smoke and mirrors? Will it last?

[Pure961089]

1 hour ago, Lemon Face said:

Tryamkin was talking about city.Horvat about fans

I think his opinion of the fans here changed when someone through his jersey #53 on the ice. 

[Edge Case]

8 hours ago, John.Tallhouse said:

 

You’re such a dick.

[steviewonder20]

9 hours ago, Rubik said:

 

after his comments? there's definitely going to be some booing

His departure and comments left a bitter taste, but it’s classless to boo him. He was solid here and helped our young superstars (Huggy and Petey) a lot, according to them. He deserves some respect. 

[Barnstorm]

6 minutes ago, Edge Case said:

 

You’re such a dick.

Rumour has it Danny McManus is being brought in as Edmonton’s zone entry coach.

[Googlie]

57 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And we fans wonder why the league office does everything they can to help the US based teams rebuild to winning levels. Fans totally disappear down there. They don’t care about the game like we do. Canada is hockey. 

 

Sharks have just over 9000 season ticket holders in 2023-24, but (obviously) about 8,900 of them are no-shows

[Ghostsof1915]

28 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

I wasn’t suggesting the fans should be there. 
If two NHL teams can’t come close to filling the lower bowl I’d say there’s a problem with the product and the location. These are Bettman’s pet projects, they’re not strong hockey markets, fair weather only. 

San Jose has shown way more support than Arizona ever has.

[Barnstorm]

4 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

San Jose has shown way more support than Arizona ever has.

That is true. Arizona is a write off. 
Part of Bettman’s failed plan. Perhaps we will see further collapse in US markets like San Jose. 
 

[Lemon Face]

9 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

That is true. Arizona is a write off. 
Part of Bettman’s failed plan. Perhaps we will see further collapse in US markets like San Jose. 
 

2 teams in Toronto and team in Quebec city would be dream rivalry.

[Cromeslab]

21 minutes ago, Lemon Face said:

2 teams in Toronto and team in Quebec city would be dream rivalry.

Tor will never allow this

[Chon derry]

36 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

That is true. Arizona is a write off. 
Part of Bettman’s failed plan. Perhaps we will see further collapse in US markets like San Jose. 
 

That’s the part buttman doesn’t understand. Quebec’s fanbase is bigger than both those cities even without a team  

Edited November 15, 2023 by Chon derry

[Jester13]

2 hours ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

 

 

I wish it was more about the annual Diwali game and less about the will fans boo Horvat game.

[PistolPete13]

2 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Vegas loss tonight...a win tomorrow secures top seed in the West for this team.

 

Forget Horvat's homecoming...its about being the west and getting the 2 points tomorrow. Show no mercy.

That’s how you do it.

I’m sure that there will be a short tribute for Bo and we can applaud his past efforts for the team.

When the puck drops, that’s another story. If Bo sticks A Canuck then I’ll boo. Otherwise he’s just another guy wearing the wrong uniform.

[Smashian Kassian]

11 hours ago, -AJ- said:

 

Hmm...It's not like Vancouver was on fire at the time, right?

 

Never understood why Canuck fans took this so personally. We were trending hard downwards and the management had just treated a beloved coach like trash. Of course things sucked in Vancouver at the time. Bo was just being honest about how bad things were in Vancouver and butthurt fans couldn't deal with that.

 

2 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

True. I think it was a mutual decision eventually. I don’t think Horvat requested a trade per se, but once Miller was re-signed, it probably became clear that he was going to be relegated to 3C if he took the lesser offer. 

 

3 hours ago, The Duke said:

Yeah.  My read on it at the time was management basically decided to move on / trade him but maybe still gave him a few lowball offers. 

IIRC they were repeatedly reported never being close.  

How did I never catch on that Willie D is a surprisingly phallic nickname

 

The rumour at the time was the initial offer from Ruthervin was at or a lower AAV than what he was making (5.5), for a guy who's the captain & was coming off a 36 goal pace, I think that's kind of an insulting offer to be honest.

 

Even if you don't have the money - which was the reality - I can see how that ruffles feathers. Bo very clearly loved it here & wanted to spend his career in Vancouver. I don't blame him for being hurt by the situation, I don't think our management handled it great. And to his credit he showed up every night despite it all & scored at a 50 goal pace, which allowed us to make a couple of great trades to land Hronek.

 

 

 

[24K]

Don't boo Bo and don't cheer formhim either when the inevitable tribute video comes up. 

 

Best to just ignore him completely.

 

Horvat did it to himself with this fanbase. Give him him the cold shoulders without angering the players after their comments. 

[Rubik]

5 hours ago, steviewonder20 said:

His departure and comments left a bitter taste, but it’s classless to boo him. He was solid here and helped our young superstars (Huggy and Petey) a lot, according to them. He deserves some respect. 

 

I'm not saying people should boo him. I just think there's going to be some booing.

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

 

 

The rumour at the time was the initial offer from Ruthervin was at or a lower AAV than what he was making (5.5), for a guy who's the captain & was coming off a 36 goal pace, I think that's kind of an insulting offer to be honest.

 

Even if you don't have the money - which was the reality - I can see how that ruffles feathers. Bo very clearly loved it here & wanted to spend his career in Vancouver. I don't blame him for being hurt by the situation, I don't think our management handled it great. And to his credit he showed up every night despite it all & scored at a 50 goal pace, which allowed us to make a couple of great trades to land Hronek.

 

 

 

Source?   The rumour was, their initial offer started with a 5.   Which could have been 5.99, and that's just silly to think he was actually offered less than he was making.    More offers were made .... talking heads figured Horvats camp would be asking for something in the low to mid 7's.   Allvin repeatedly said they would make the room and had the money to sign Horvat too.  Low 7's was pretty steep at the time, but palatable.  Personally sure he was offered more than Brock, Horvat just scored 30 goals for the first time, and wanted to be paid like a first line center.   Team made the right move obviously.

 

Nobody was expecting 8.5 x 8.     Even Lou, whose post signing comments were pretty frank (about overpaying for Horvat), it's what sometimes happens when you really really need something you don't have.    

 

As for the fans, hope they are respectful, cheer lightly  and politely clap during his video.    Unfortunately, he's mostly going to be remembered as a guy who was around for almost a decade  of tough times.   Some St. Louis stuff too, he played a heck of a series for us.    And the 50 point two way center, who just happened to be the best candidate after the Sedins retired, well either him or Edler. 

 

Edit: For the record wanted to sign Horvat.   But not for what he got, a Kadri type deal would have worked though (one more year to 8... then both Millers and Horvats contract would have matched in total cash ... could have front loaded the deal as well, trade protection etc).   Worked out great so far for us ... rather pay Hronek that deal. 

 

As for the Canucks "best deal",  i'm going to bet it was over 7.  

Edited November 15, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, 24K said:

Don't boo Bo and don't cheer formhim either when the inevitable tribute video comes up. 

 

Best to just ignore him completely.

 

Horvat did it to himself with this fanbase. Give him him the cold shoulders without angering the players after their comments. 

It wasn't that bad.   Fans shouldn't overreact and just ignore what he did (what he didn't do as well).    The only thing that rubs a bit, is he was our Captain.    Captain placeholder maybe.   Didn't feel he was either a good or a bad candidate, just the best we had at the time (Edler would have been fine too), it was just a tough circumstance.   Team needed a change.   This trade likely works out for both teams.    The ironic thing maybe is, Horvats team isn't very good, and he likely put himself into a position where he's going to have a lot more middling mediocre at best years team wise going for the cash grab. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, Chon derry said:

That’s the part buttman doesn’t understand. Quebec’s fanbase is bigger than both those cities even without a team  

Bettman screwed Quebec.   Yes it's a small city.   But it's also an avid hockey market, hockey is like a religion there, more so than WNP.     As for TO, their GTA is absolutely ridiculous now.   All the way to Oshawa.   They for sure could have 2, maybe even 3 teams well supported, just like NYR, NYI and NJ not far away.     Maple Leafs wouldn't lose much if any income, and it would provide a huge rivalry opportunity.  

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It wasn't that bad.   Fans shouldn't overreact and just ignore what he did (what he didn't do as well).    The only thing that rubs a bit, is he was our Captain.    Captain placeholder maybe.   Didn't feel he was either a good or a bad candidate, just the best we had at the time (Edler would have been fine too), it was just a tough circumstance.   Team needed a change.   This trade likely works out for both teams.    The ironic thing maybe is, Horvats team isn't very good, and he likely put himself into a position where he's going to have a lot more middling mediocre at best years team wise going for the cash grab. 

Yup. Bo wanted to fatten his wallet.

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Bo wanted to fatten his wallet.

Nothing wrong with that.    I'm going to bet they offered Horvat a deal that some on this site wouldn't be that happy with.   A lot went wrong last year, that made it right for later.   Major surgery was required, and huge part of that surgery happened.   Also the way Miller ended up pitted against Horvat on the CDC, fans who felt Miller should have been the guy to trade, was being projected poorly.   Media driven.    I'm sure Horvat was a good teammate.   If the team wanted Horvat traded, they'd of done it without giving him their "best offer".   And given the deals handed out that summer and into the season,  it for sure was in Horvats bank account interest, to wait it out which he for sure did.   And was pad statting under Bruce.  

 

Kind of blew that the fans would pit Miller against Horvat, who to keep, while the team itself is working hard on signing him.    In the end maybe because the season was crap, the "unfinished work" was just hot air etc, Horvat was just the low hanging fruit.   Do have to wonder if Allvin was working on a Hronek trade prior to pulling the trigger on Horvat.    

 

Tochett is the man that deserves a ton of credit.   Bad habits, poor fitness levels, strength levels, he called it like it is.   QHs was the best choice for the next Captain as well.    Almost everything is falling into place for us right now.   Let's see how they manage EPs deal.    Seems like he's been offered the sun the moon and the stars already, that's what is coming out.    Hope he's just as serious as Miller is, in wanting to be a Canuck, and willing to take a pay cut to help make that happen.   That's leadership. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Nothing wrong with that.    I'm going to bet they offered Horvat a deal that some on this site wouldn't be that happy with.   A lot went wrong last year, that made it right for later.   Major surgery was required, and huge part of that surgery happened.   Also the way Miller ended up pitted against Horvat on the CDC, fans who felt Miller should have been the guy to trade, was being projected poorly.   Media driven.    I'm sure Horvat was a good teammate.   If the team wanted Horvat traded, they'd of done it without giving him their "best offer".   And given the deals handed out that summer and into the season,  it for sure was in Horvats bank account interest, to wait it out which he for sure did.   And was pad statting under Bruce.  

 

Kind of blew that the fans would pit Miller against Horvat, who to keep, while the team itself is working hard on signing him.    In the end maybe because the season was crap, the "unfinished work" was just hot air etc, Horvat was just the low hanging fruit.   Do have to wonder if Allvin was working on a Hronek trade prior to pulling the trigger on Horvat.    

 

Tochett is the man that deserves a ton of credit.   Bad habits, poor fitness levels, strength levels, he called it like it is.   QHs was the best choice for the next Captain as well.    Almost everything is falling into place for us right now.   Let's see how they manage EPs deal.    Seems like he's been offered the sun the moon and the stars already, that's what is coming out.    Hope he's just as serious as Miller is, in wanting to be a Canuck, and willing to take a pay cut to help make that happen.   That's leadership. 

Rumour was the offer we made to Fat Wallet was 49 mil (7x7). Thank goodness he said no. We dumperooed a problem (Fat Wallet is a 3C here) and turned him into an elite right shot D who was only 25. 
We won this trade. And it could have been so much worse if we kept Fat Wallet. We should all be thankful Fat Wallet said no to that 49 million. 

[The Aquaman]

6-2 Canucks.