Francesco Aquillini and Jim Benning --Tales of a Rebuild: Misconceptions, Misery, and Money

[conquestofbaguettes]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s simple really. Gillis was GM fouling our best teams. Benning was GM during our worst. The new regime is looking a lot more like Gillis (and thsnk God) than Benning. 

Even Gillis or Allvin would look like shit if they were dealt the same cards the Benning regime was atxhat time.

 

Even trying to compare them from a team development standpoint, what assets they had to work with let alone ownership mandates to stay competitive on top of that...?

 

It's apples and oranges.

[conquestofbaguettes]

3 minutes ago, SV. said:

Have you though?  Because the title of this thread literally names the former GM as part of the equation in this exploration.  I get the need to provide context, and I understand how it's difficult to separate the two, but if you really wanted to, you could have prefaced your whole post by saying that you want to focus on ownership and their mandates, aiming to see how they compare to other ownerships and their processes of rebuilding, rather than paying any mind to any one Canucks employee and their application and performance on the job.  To whatever extent you wanted to say "there's more to the story", it was also evident that some of what was posted was meant to exonerate the former GM and his team as part of this story.

When the main focal point is purportedly the business end and how it impacts what we understand about rebuilding, I think it would have been very easy to present an analysis that looked at other ownerships, whether hockey or another sport, and stuck to that.  I don't think managerial context is needed at all, unless prompted to provide such context.

That's just me though.

I certainly understand what you're saying and I'd agree... if I was writing an academic paper. But this is post on the internet lol. Was meant to provoke thoughts, feelings, or otherwise.

 

And we know how social media works. If I didn't provide the managerial perspective people would jump there regardless. So what's the difference. Not like I'm gonna write a table of contents and 15 pages of citations for this shit, know what I mean lol.

 

As for "exonerating" the previus regime, that was never my position. Although I did say I think Benning is more of scapegoat than anything given the situation there. And I still stand by that. Doesnt mean I wholly liked or wholly hated anything he did, because life obviously more complicated than that. There was both good and bad. Neveetheless, most of what happened was still a product of underlying circumstances. And if that's deemed "a defense" of him or his body of work then so be it. I don't neccesarily view it that way, but then I don't really care tbh.

 

Either way even hinting there could be explanations beyond some of these commonly held beliefs of "they just bad" was only ever going to lead to one place. And I think you know that as well as I do

[Alflives]

29 minutes ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

Even Gillis or Allvin would look like shit if they were dealt the same cards the Benning regime was atxhat time.

 

Even trying to compare them from a team development standpoint, what assets they had to work with let alone ownership mandates to stay competitive on top of that...?

 

It's apples and oranges.

Benning sold our owner thst he could mske the team great quick. He lied (or was friggin’ moron) on purpose to get his job. Benning was a disaster. And he was a coward. Snd he was a control freak. 

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, LillStrimma said:

Keep on

I saw the Flames intimidate our team because of that thing about size.

It’s all about if the other team think they can get away with it. 

we’ve been bigger but it seems we have a bit more to do there.

Ohhh… you saw the Flames bully Pettersson and Hughes???? so the phlegms are a playoff team this upcoming post season already?!

crazy.. must be nice to not have to play a full 82 game season

[conquestofbaguettes]

4 hours ago, AK-19 said:

It's amazing how the drafting records of poorly performing teams seem to be so much better than the average team. Almost like there's a reason for it. 

Or why GMs that have star-studded rosters that win a lot of games look better than GMs without them and lose.

 

A mystery that may never be solved.

[conquestofbaguettes]

41 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Benning sold our owner thst he could mske the team great quick. He lied (or was friggin’ moron) on purpose to get his job. Benning was a disaster. And he was a coward. Snd he was a control freak. 

Seriously. Where do you guys get this shit. Lol. That comment rivals another hilarious reply I got earlier stating,"he was a bad leader because he didn’t have the moral and ethics."

 

Not sure which wins the blue ribbon of the day yet, but you're definitely in the running. Congrats!

Edited November 22, 2023 by conquestofbaguettes

[Ballisticsports]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Benning sold our owner thst he could mske the team great quick. He lied (or was friggin’ moron) on purpose to get his job. Benning was a disaster. And he was a coward. Snd he was a control freak. 

 

25 minutes ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

Seriously. Where do you guys get this shit. Lol.

 

Is this where you defend JB all the while pretending this post isn't about him?

JB never promised us to be elite?

JB never kept his management team in the know and his staff left?

[The Lock]

3 hours ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

 

By that analogy you must think no outside influences or directives played ANY role on what the previous regime could do.  And that would be a demonstrably false statement.

 

As I stated previously, maybe this or that little thing here or there may have been different, but those underlying "stay competitive" directives were never changing. Rebuilding while Hank and Danny were still was never an option.

 

And when you are limited by some extreme circumstances, as the previous regime ultimately was, and don't have a lot to work with to begin with, yeah. It doesn't matter much which particular figure head you shove in there to do the GM role. And if they said no they'd get replaced so they could execute the plan laid at their feet.   Even Linden couldn't change that.

 

So yes. Other GMs could absolutely just as easily look like dogshit if they had that role at that time.

 

It's more about the conditions that set the stage dictating what you can actually do to guide the organization in a particular direction more than it is about  this or that particular trade, signing, or pick. Ie. Tanking plan v. stay competitive plan.   That wasn't the GMs call. And all that followed from he GM under that stay competitive plan is like fruit of the poisonous tree..

 

eg. Would they even have signed X old vet for too much and too long if staying competitive wasn't the demand?

 

Nope.

 

So unless we are willing to view every single move from that time with a deeper understanding of why... then it means mostly fuck all.

 

Must think? No. I don't think that at all. I'm just saying we don't know what the scenario would be. The fact that you need to put words in my mouth tells me you have no argument here.

 

Fact is there 100% would be some GMs that could have done better and some that would do worse. it doesn't matter about the outside circumstances, the inside circumstances, or whatever argument you thrown in. To not realise this is nothing more than madness and ignorance.

 

So, where in your bedroom do you have your stone chiseled Benning statue? Is it right where you wake up so he's the first thing you see?

 

(I await your next long-worded post of nothingness)

Edited November 22, 2023 by The Lock

[LillStrimma]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Ohhh… you saw the Flames bully Pettersson and Hughes???? so the phlegms are a playoff team this upcoming post season already?!

crazy.. must be nice to not have to play a full 82 game season

What are you on? I talked about size and that is one thing CDC convinced me was important. Size is forced down the throat and I have to accept that size is more important in certain games than quality.

The Flames game was just an example, not the Flames themselves.

So you argue only for arguing sake? 
 

 

[AnthonyG]

9 hours ago, Ballisticsports said:

 

 

Is this where you defend JB all the while pretending this post isn't about him?

JB never promised us to be elite?

JB never kept his management team in the know and his staff left?

Pettersson - elite

Demko - elite

hughes - elite

miller - elite

 

I’d say he was pretty good to his word wouldnt you?

[LillStrimma]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Pettersson - elite

Demko - elite

hughes - elite

miller - elite

 

I’d say he was pretty good to his word wouldnt you?

So that is what the Oilers GM are saying all the tiime… We are elite.

And the Oilers have had the same GM as drafted Draisatl and McDavid, wonderful.

Talk about loyal to the scouts, sorry I meant GM.

 

 

[Ballisticsports]

1 hour ago, AnthonyG said:

Pettersson - elite

Demko - elite

hughes - elite

miller - elite

 

I’d say he was pretty good to his word wouldnt you?

Not in my books

 

In 2016 JB said we'd be competing with the elite teams in 2018 and 2019 

“Realistically, if you’re asking me when will the day be that we can compete with the best teams in the league, I think that [Sedin contract] timeline is fair,” said Benning. “This is year two, and by our fourth or fifth year, I hope we’ll be there with the elite teams in the league.”

 

 

Contemplate that JB was just a GM of the Canucks and not out scouting all day, and as every other GM will state

That the draft is the Scouts Day !

 

Yzerman

My philosophy is, unless I want to go out there (scouting), which I don't think is possible in the game today to be a general manager and go fly around the world and watch all these players and decide on who we are going to pick at the draft, that to me it's just meddling on my part and just confusing things,'' Yzerman said.

"For me to go and watch a player once or twice or read about a player and decide he is better than another player, I'm just throwing darts and I don't want to do that.''

 

Armstrong

The model varies from table to table, but most teams put the running of the draft table in the hands of the director of amateur scouting and/or the assistant GM, while the GM takes a step back to let his troops conduct the business of restocking the prospect shelves.

Having a GM make selections based on seeing a young player perhaps once or twice as opposed to the 15 to 20 times an amateur scout will see the player "is the most dangerous scouting of all," St. Louis GM Doug Armstrong said.

Sometimes during draft day, Armstrong will refer back to a comment made by a scout during earlier meetings, but in general, he will let his staff -- led by director of amateur scouting Bill Armstrong -- run the show.

 

Chayka

“It really is their show,” said Coyotes general manager John Chayka, whose team has seven picks in this year’s draft, including five among the first 74. “Those guys work all year and they fly a lot, drive a lot of miles, stay in a lot of hotels, make a lot of sacrifices. Seeing their players play at the NHL level is rewarding for them. I don’t do the scouting like they do so this is their time to take the reins.”

 

Allvin was a scout as well and doesn’t have the ego to let people think he does it all - He puts people in charge he trusts to do their own jobs

 

Given Allvin's 19-year history as a scout, between the Montreal Canadiens and the Pittsburgh Penguins, he understands the hours poured into finding players and he trusts his team.

"I have a lot of respect for them. I know how hard they work and the pride they take to make this right," Allvin said. "[The Draft] is a graduation for the scouts, it's a game seven. The excitement for them coming into Nashville, it's well deserved, and I want to make sure they enjoy the time there as well. They definitely have done a great job since I've got in here

 

So believing what GM’s say about the draft ( As your only wrongful proof JB core makes him a great GM regarding drafting)

What did he do as a GM that one wouldn’t be glad he is gone ?

 

He kept a bottom feeder team at the bottom, while being one of the highest paid teams in his 8 years (that is good)?

Traded draft picks to acquire overpaid vets on term to sit on the bench, or another teams bench or in the minors, then spent more picks to get rid of the same player (Good)?

He let so many assets walk freely while we were a poor team and far from a contender (not good)

8 years there should be lot’s of good

He kept his management team in the dark (except Weisbrod) and watched them leave from his power grab  (most likely because he wanted yes men)

He was able to acquire JT and that is one good thing

 

What GM duty was he great at? 

 

GM’s build the team that goes on the ice.

The GM has several departments under them

 

Scouting. The scouts in the organization are generally broken into two parts- pro and amateur. Amateur scouts will keep track of the junior and high school ranks- they provide information to the GM about draft decisions. Pro scouts will keep track of other players in the NHL or minor leagues, so the GM can make the final decision with trades or signings.

Analytics. Some teams have more than others, but most teams have at least one person who’s job it is to make statistical or other models to evaluate players, either amateur or professional. These analysts will provide feedback to the GM for both drafting and trades.

Business/Salary Cap. The team has to obey the salary cap and other rules of the CBA, and many teams employ a ‘capologist’-a person whose job it is to know all the ins and outs of the collective bargaining agreement, and how the team stands in for both this year and future years. The capologist can come up with scenarios to allow teams to sign expensive players or make salary cap space. Since the GM makes the ultimate decision with signings and trades, it’s their job to understand the cap implications.

Coach/team Human Resources. The GM also can hire and fire coaches, and acts as a point person on those interpersonal things.

Team Strategy and Direction. The GM will collaborate with the owner and coaches to make sure everyone understands the goals and constraints of the organization. What is the budget? What is the goal for this year and the coming years in terms of results? The GM doesn’t do things like set ticket prices, but is aware of the overall team financial health, and makes a plan to go along with what the owner wants.

 

A GM is a really big job, and a lot more than just walking up to the mic at the draft and saying what your scouts recommended, and making trades.

I judge a GM based on performing Their job and not of what others that did of their job (of saying who they found to be the best player available)

[AnthonyG]

21 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

So that is what the Oilers GM are saying all the tiime… We are elite.

And the Oilers have had the same GM as drafted Draisatl and McDavid, wonderful.

Talk about loyal to the scouts, sorry I meant GM.

 

 

What? Are you okay dude? Idk wtf you are trying to say or communicate… but i can break down and decipher that whole Draisaitl being drafted by MacTavish and McDavid by Chiapet which =/= same GM and their current GM is Ken Holland… so like idk what you are talking about and neither do you, so I’m walking away from this conversation or should I say educational/informational 

[LillStrimma]

1 minute ago, AnthonyG said:

What? Are you okay dude? Idk wtf you are trying to say or communicate… but i can break down and decipher that whole Draisaitl being drafted by MacTavish and McDavid by Chiapet which =/= same GM and their current GM is Ken Holland… so like idk what you are talking about and neither do you, so I’m walking away from this conversation or should I say educational/informational 

Ah, so you can’t understand what I wrote. That explains a lot. Sorry to waste your time.

[AnthonyG]

26 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

Not in my books

 

In 2016 JB said we'd be competing with the elite teams in 2018 and 2019 

“Realistically, if you’re asking me when will the day be that we can compete with the best teams in the league, I think that [Sedin contract] timeline is fair,” said Benning. “This is year two, and by our fourth or fifth year, I hope we’ll be there with the elite teams in the league.”

 

 

Contemplate that JB was just a GM of the Canucks and not out scouting all day, and as every other GM will state

That the draft is the Scouts Day !

 

Yzerman

My philosophy is, unless I want to go out there (scouting), which I don't think is possible in the game today to be a general manager and go fly around the world and watch all these players and decide on who we are going to pick at the draft, that to me it's just meddling on my part and just confusing things,'' Yzerman said.

"For me to go and watch a player once or twice or read about a player and decide he is better than another player, I'm just throwing darts and I don't want to do that.''

 

Armstrong

The model varies from table to table, but most teams put the running of the draft table in the hands of the director of amateur scouting and/or the assistant GM, while the GM takes a step back to let his troops conduct the business of restocking the prospect shelves.

Having a GM make selections based on seeing a young player perhaps once or twice as opposed to the 15 to 20 times an amateur scout will see the player "is the most dangerous scouting of all," St. Louis GM Doug Armstrong said.

Sometimes during draft day, Armstrong will refer back to a comment made by a scout during earlier meetings, but in general, he will let his staff -- led by director of amateur scouting Bill Armstrong -- run the show.

 

Chayka

“It really is their show,” said Coyotes general manager John Chayka, whose team has seven picks in this year’s draft, including five among the first 74. “Those guys work all year and they fly a lot, drive a lot of miles, stay in a lot of hotels, make a lot of sacrifices. Seeing their players play at the NHL level is rewarding for them. I don’t do the scouting like they do so this is their time to take the reins.”

 

Allvin was a scout as well and doesn’t have the ego to let people think he does it all - He puts people in charge he trusts to do their own jobs

 

Given Allvin's 19-year history as a scout, between the Montreal Canadiens and the Pittsburgh Penguins, he understands the hours poured into finding players and he trusts his team.

"I have a lot of respect for them. I know how hard they work and the pride they take to make this right," Allvin said. "[The Draft] is a graduation for the scouts, it's a game seven. The excitement for them coming into Nashville, it's well deserved, and I want to make sure they enjoy the time there as well. They definitely have done a great job since I've got in here

 

So believing what GM’s say about the draft ( As your only wrongful proof JB core makes him a great GM regarding drafting)

What did he do as a GM that one wouldn’t be glad he is gone ?

 

He kept a bottom feeder team at the bottom, while being one of the highest paid teams in his 8 years (that is good)?

Traded draft picks to acquire overpaid vets on term to sit on the bench, or another teams bench or in the minors, then spent more picks to get rid of the same player (Good)?

He let so many assets walk freely while we were a poor team and far from a contender (not good)

8 years there should be lot’s of good

He kept his management team in the dark (except Weisbrod) and watched them leave from his power grab  (most likely because he wanted yes men)

He was able to acquire JT and that is one good thing

 

What GM duty was he great at? 

 

GM’s build the team that goes on the ice.

The GM has several departments under them

 

Scouting. The scouts in the organization are generally broken into two parts- pro and amateur. Amateur scouts will keep track of the junior and high school ranks- they provide information to the GM about draft decisions. Pro scouts will keep track of other players in the NHL or minor leagues, so the GM can make the final decision with trades or signings.

Analytics. Some teams have more than others, but most teams have at least one person who’s job it is to make statistical or other models to evaluate players, either amateur or professional. These analysts will provide feedback to the GM for both drafting and trades.

Business/Salary Cap. The team has to obey the salary cap and other rules of the CBA, and many teams employ a ‘capologist’-a person whose job it is to know all the ins and outs of the collective bargaining agreement, and how the team stands in for both this year and future years. The capologist can come up with scenarios to allow teams to sign expensive players or make salary cap space. Since the GM makes the ultimate decision with signings and trades, it’s their job to understand the cap implications.

Coach/team Human Resources. The GM also can hire and fire coaches, and acts as a point person on those interpersonal things.

Team Strategy and Direction. The GM will collaborate with the owner and coaches to make sure everyone understands the goals and constraints of the organization. What is the budget? What is the goal for this year and the coming years in terms of results? The GM doesn’t do things like set ticket prices, but is aware of the overall team financial health, and makes a plan to go along with what the owner wants.

 

A GM is a really big job, and a lot more than just walking up to the mic at the draft and saying what your scouts recommended, and making trades.

I judge a GM based on performing Their job and not of what others that did of their job (of saying who they found to be the best player available)

Thats great and all but….

2013 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2013 Entry	9	1	Bo Horvat	C	London Knights [OHL]	667	213	237	450	208
2013 Entry	24	1	Hunter Shinkaruk	L	Medicine Hat Tigers [WHL]	15	2	2	4	4
2013 Entry	85	3	Cole Cassels	C	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2013 Entry	115	4	Jordan Subban	D	Belleville Bulls [OHL]
2013 Entry	145	5	Anton Cederholm	D	Rogle Jrs. (Sweden)
2013 Entry	175	6	Mike Williamson	D	Spruce Grove Saints [AJHL]
2013 Entry	205	7	Miles Liberati	D	London Knights [OHL]
2012 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2012 Entry	26	1	Brendan Gaunce	C	Belleville Bulls [OHL]	153	11	13	24	61
2012 Entry	57	2	Alexandre Mallet	C	Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]
2012 Entry	147	5	Ben Hutton	D	Nepean Raiders [CCHL]	481	22	92	114	185
2012 Entry	177	6	Wesley Myron	F	Victoria Grizzlies [BCHL]
2012 Entry	207	7	Matthew Beattie	R	Exeter [N.H. H.S.]
2011 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2011 Entry	29	1	Nicklas Jensen	R	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	31	3	3	6	10
2011 Entry	71	3	David Honzik	G	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2011 Entry	90	3	Alexandre Grenier	R	Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]	9	0	0	0	2
2011 Entry	101	4	Joseph LaBate	L	Holy Angels Academy (Minn.)	13	0	0	0	21
2011 Entry	120	4	Ludwig Blomstrand	L	Djurgardens Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2011 Entry	150	5	Frankie Corrado	D	Sudbury Wolves [OHL]	76	3	5	8	40
2011 Entry	180	6	Pathrik Westerholm	L	Malmo Redhawks [Swe-1]
2011 Entry	210	7	Henrik Tommernes	D	Frolunda HC [SEL]
2010 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2010 Entry	115	4	Patrick McNally	D	Milton Academy [Mass.]
2010 Entry	145	5	Adam Polasek	D	Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]
2010 Entry	172	6	Alex Friesen	C	Niagara IceDogs [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2010 Entry	175	6	Jonathan Iilahti	G	Blues Jrs (Finland)
2010 Entry	205	7	Sawyer Hannay	D	Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL]
2009 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2009 Entry	22	1	Jordan Schroeder	L	U. of Minnesota [WCHA]	165	18	24	42	14
2009 Entry	53	2	Anton Rodin	R	Brynas Jr. [Swe-Jr]	3	0	1	1	0
2009 Entry	83	3	Kevin Connauton	D	Western Michigan University [CCHA]	360	28	52	80	188
2009 Entry	113	4	Jeremy Price	D	Nepean Raiders [CJHL]
2009 Entry	143	5	Peter Andersson	D	Vastra Frolunda Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2009 Entry	173	6	Joe Cannata	G	Merrimack College [H-East]
2009 Entry	187	7	Steven Anthony	L	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]
2008 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2008 Entry	10	1	Cody Hodgson	C	Brampton Battalion [OHL]	328	64	78	142	68
2008 Entry	41	2	Yann Sauve	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]	8	0	0	0	0
2008 Entry	131	5	Prabh Rai	C	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2008 Entry	161	6	Mats Josten-Froshaug	C	Linkoping HC Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2008 Entry	191	7	Morgan Clark	G	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
2007 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2007 Entry	25	1	Patrick White	C	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2007 Entry	33	2	Taylor Ellington	D	Everett Silvertips [WHL]
2007 Entry	145	5	Charles-Antoine Messier	C	Baie-Comeau Drakkar [QMJHL]
2007 Entry	146	5	Ilya Kablukov	W	CSKA Moscow [Russia]
2007 Entry	176	6	Taylor Matson	C	Des Moines Buccaneers [USHL]
2007 Entry	206	7	Dan Gendur	C	Everett Silvertips [WHL]
2006 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2006 Entry	14	1	Michael Grabner	R	Spokane Chiefs [WHL]	640	175	101	276	110
2006 Entry	82	3	Daniel Rahimi	D	Bjorkloven Jr. [Sweden]
2006 Entry	163	6	Sergei Shirokov	R	CSKA Moscow [Russia]	8	1	0	1	2
2006 Entry	167	6	Juraj Simek	W	Kloten HC [Swiss-A]
2006 Entry	197	7	Evan Fuller	C	Prince George Cougars [WHL]
2005 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2005 Entry	10	1	Luc Bourdon	D	Val d'Or Foreurs [QMJHL]	36	2	0	2	24
2005 Entry	51	2	Mason Raymond	L	Camrose Kodiaks [AJHL]	546	115	136	251	156
2005 Entry	114	4	Alexandre Vincent	G	Chicoutimi Sagueneens [QMJHL]
2005 Entry	138	5	Matt Butcher	C	Chilliwack Chiefs [BCHL]
2005 Entry	185	6	Kris Fredheim	D	Notre Dame Hounds [SJHL]	3	0	0	0	2
2005 Entry	205	7	Mario Bliznak	C	Dubnica Spartak HC [Slovak]	6	1	0	1	0

Sick scouting days bro

 

we know for a fact JB listened to his scouts on Pettersson, he listened on Hughes and if he didnt listen he made the right choice. 
Virtanen was our scouting departments pick as well as Aquaweenie’s preferred choice.

 

OJ was an organizational need and the highest ranked dman. He may have overruled, but at what point do you select a dman in the top 10 and start building your own blueline instead of making trades.

‘98, ‘05 and ‘16 are the only dmen to be taken in the last 25 years

Brian Allen, Bourdon and Juolevi. Had Bourdon not died, we wouldnt have such a need to find a dman.

Edited November 22, 2023 by AnthonyG

[Ballisticsports]

8 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Thats great and all but….

2013 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2013 Entry	9	1	Bo Horvat	C	London Knights [OHL]	667	213	237	450	208
2013 Entry	24	1	Hunter Shinkaruk	L	Medicine Hat Tigers [WHL]	15	2	2	4	4
2013 Entry	85	3	Cole Cassels	C	Oshawa Generals [OHL]
2013 Entry	115	4	Jordan Subban	D	Belleville Bulls [OHL]
2013 Entry	145	5	Anton Cederholm	D	Rogle Jrs. (Sweden)
2013 Entry	175	6	Mike Williamson	D	Spruce Grove Saints [AJHL]
2013 Entry	205	7	Miles Liberati	D	London Knights [OHL]
2012 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2012 Entry	26	1	Brendan Gaunce	C	Belleville Bulls [OHL]	153	11	13	24	61
2012 Entry	57	2	Alexandre Mallet	C	Rimouski Oceanic [QMJHL]
2012 Entry	147	5	Ben Hutton	D	Nepean Raiders [CCHL]	481	22	92	114	185
2012 Entry	177	6	Wesley Myron	F	Victoria Grizzlies [BCHL]
2012 Entry	207	7	Matthew Beattie	R	Exeter [N.H. H.S.]
2011 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2011 Entry	29	1	Nicklas Jensen	R	Oshawa Generals [OHL]	31	3	3	6	10
2011 Entry	71	3	David Honzik	G	Victoriaville Tigres [QMJHL]
2011 Entry	90	3	Alexandre Grenier	R	Quebec Remparts [QMJHL]	9	0	0	0	2
2011 Entry	101	4	Joseph LaBate	L	Holy Angels Academy (Minn.)	13	0	0	0	21
2011 Entry	120	4	Ludwig Blomstrand	L	Djurgardens Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2011 Entry	150	5	Frankie Corrado	D	Sudbury Wolves [OHL]	76	3	5	8	40
2011 Entry	180	6	Pathrik Westerholm	L	Malmo Redhawks [Swe-1]
2011 Entry	210	7	Henrik Tommernes	D	Frolunda HC [SEL]
2010 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2010 Entry	115	4	Patrick McNally	D	Milton Academy [Mass.]
2010 Entry	145	5	Adam Polasek	D	Prince Edward Island Rocket [QMJHL]
2010 Entry	172	6	Alex Friesen	C	Niagara IceDogs [OHL]	1	0	0	0	0
2010 Entry	175	6	Jonathan Iilahti	G	Blues Jrs (Finland)
2010 Entry	205	7	Sawyer Hannay	D	Halifax Mooseheads [QMJHL]
2009 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2009 Entry	22	1	Jordan Schroeder	L	U. of Minnesota [WCHA]	165	18	24	42	14
2009 Entry	53	2	Anton Rodin	R	Brynas Jr. [Swe-Jr]	3	0	1	1	0
2009 Entry	83	3	Kevin Connauton	D	Western Michigan University [CCHA]	360	28	52	80	188
2009 Entry	113	4	Jeremy Price	D	Nepean Raiders [CJHL]
2009 Entry	143	5	Peter Andersson	D	Vastra Frolunda Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2009 Entry	173	6	Joe Cannata	G	Merrimack College [H-East]
2009 Entry	187	7	Steven Anthony	L	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]
2008 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2008 Entry	10	1	Cody Hodgson	C	Brampton Battalion [OHL]	328	64	78	142	68
2008 Entry	41	2	Yann Sauve	D	Saint John Sea Dogs [QMJHL]	8	0	0	0	0
2008 Entry	131	5	Prabh Rai	C	Seattle Thunderbirds [WHL]
2008 Entry	161	6	Mats Josten-Froshaug	C	Linkoping HC Jr. [Swe-Jr]
2008 Entry	191	7	Morgan Clark	G	Red Deer Rebels [WHL]
2007 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2007 Entry	25	1	Patrick White	C	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2007 Entry	33	2	Taylor Ellington	D	Everett Silvertips [WHL]
2007 Entry	145	5	Charles-Antoine Messier	C	Baie-Comeau Drakkar [QMJHL]
2007 Entry	146	5	Ilya Kablukov	W	CSKA Moscow [Russia]
2007 Entry	176	6	Taylor Matson	C	Des Moines Buccaneers [USHL]
2007 Entry	206	7	Dan Gendur	C	Everett Silvertips [WHL]
2006 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2006 Entry	14	1	Michael Grabner	R	Spokane Chiefs [WHL]	640	175	101	276	110
2006 Entry	82	3	Daniel Rahimi	D	Bjorkloven Jr. [Sweden]
2006 Entry	163	6	Sergei Shirokov	R	CSKA Moscow [Russia]	8	1	0	1	2
2006 Entry	167	6	Juraj Simek	W	Kloten HC [Swiss-A]
2006 Entry	197	7	Evan Fuller	C	Prince George Cougars [WHL]
2005 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2005 Entry	10	1	Luc Bourdon	D	Val d'Or Foreurs [QMJHL]	36	2	0	2	24
2005 Entry	51	2	Mason Raymond	L	Camrose Kodiaks [AJHL]	546	115	136	251	156
2005 Entry	114	4	Alexandre Vincent	G	Chicoutimi Sagueneens [QMJHL]
2005 Entry	138	5	Matt Butcher	C	Chilliwack Chiefs [BCHL]
2005 Entry	185	6	Kris Fredheim	D	Notre Dame Hounds [SJHL]	3	0	0	0	2
2005 Entry	205	7	Mario Bliznak	C	Dubnica Spartak HC [Slovak]	6	1	0	1	0

Sick scouting days bro

 

we know for a fact JB listened to his scouts on Pettersson, he listened on Hughes and if he didnt listen he made the right choice. 
Virtanen was our scouting departments pick as well as Aquaweenie’s preferred choice.

 

OJ was an organizational need and the highest ranked dman. He may have overruled, but at what point do you select a dman in the top 10 and start building your own blueline instead of making trades.

‘98, ‘05 and ‘16 are the only dmen to be taken in the last 25 years

Brian Allen, Bourdon and Juolevi. Had Bourdon not died, we wouldnt have such a need to find a dman.

What does that have to do with JB DOING HIS JOB OF DUTIES ?

You still want to think he was our scout and not GM, and when did those scouts get as many top 10 picks (Or top draft round picks) as JB scouts anyways?

Why ignore what I posted about it's not his job and what a GM job is and stick to a debate of why you think he was good?

IF that is all you have, I guess we are done

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

What does that have to do with JB DOING HIS JOB OF DUTIES ?

You still want to think he was our scout and not GM, and when did those scouts get as many top 10 picks (Or top draft round picks) as JB scouts anyways?

Why ignore what I posted about it's not his job and what a GM job is and stick to a debate of why you think he was good?

IF that is all you have, I guess we are done

At the end of the day, Benning was the GM when those 'home run' picks of Hughes & Petey were made.  He also has to take the "credit' for the lack of drafted players in later rounds playing supporting positions on the team today (would be no reason to sign the likes of Poolman, a third pairing guy, to the contract he got).  You need those "cheap guys (contracts)" to fill-out positions.

[The Lock]

This thread really shows there's not much to complain about nowadays since we have to go back to Benning and Gillis to complain or have to somehow "justify" Allvin isn't making this team better through wild stretches of the imagination. lol

 

I hope this continues for the foreseeable future.

Edited November 22, 2023 by The Lock

[Ballisticsports]

4 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

At the end of the day, Benning was the GM when those 'home run' picks of Hughes & Petey were made.  He also has to take the "credit' for the lack of drafted players in later rounds playing supporting positions on the team today (would be no reason to sign the likes of Poolman, a third pairing guy, to the contract he got).  You need those "cheap guys (contracts)" to fill-out positions.

At the end of the day, The GM builds the team and GM's state that the draft is the Scouts Day,

 

In one year despite inheriting a capped out (flat cap for many years) and despite our stars now being paid way more, than when on ELC and RFA contracts, we see a Managerial team who understands how to build (even while handcuffed) to build a winning team and listen and trust their staff and work together and not yes men (that they stated they do not want) ! and when hired JR said they have ALOT of work to do

 

Smyl himself stated The Canucks had no identity or culture and that does not come from adding  2 or 3 players you bring in, it has to happen from the Management on down to give them that direction and confidence

 

At the end of the day,

I'd like to hear what made JB a good GM (rather than walking up to a mic and reporting what his scouts said)?

[AnthonyG]

46 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Ah, so you can’t understand what I wrote. That explains a lot. Sorry to waste your time.

 

4 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

At the end of the day, The GM builds the team and GM's state that the draft is the Scouts Day,

 

In one year despite inheriting a capped out (flat cap for many years) and despite our stars now being paid way more, than when on ELC and RFA contracts, we see a Managerial team who understands how to build (even while handcuffed) to build a winning team and listen and trust their staff and work together and not yes men (that they stated they do not want) ! and when hired JR said they have ALOT of work to do

 

Smyl himself stated The Canucks had no identity or culture and that does not come from adding  2 or 3 players you bring in, it has to happen from the Management on down to give them that direction and confidence

 

At the end of the day,

I'd like to hear what made JB a good GM (rather than walking up to a mic and reporting what his scouts said)?

Funny because you guys and countless others will sit here and blame him for Virtanen and OJ and then give the credit elsewhere for Pettersson/Hughes. You pick and choose when its convenient to and suits your narrative.

 

You hear endless bitching and complaining about 2 fuckin picks TWO. But complete silence on everybody else.

 

https://forum.canucks.com/topic/398200-draft-edition-benning-vs-the-world/#comment-15938949
 

maybe by the end of that write up, you’ll understand why I think Benning was better at his job than most will give him credit for.

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Alflives said:

Benning sold our owner thst he could mske the team great quick. He lied (or was friggin’ moron) on purpose to get his job. Benning was a disaster. And he was a coward. Snd he was a control freak. 

Snd.   Really are we going there! 

Edited November 22, 2023 by IBatch

[Ballisticsports]

10 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

 

Funny because you guys and countless others will sit here and blame him for Virtanen and OJ and then give the credit elsewhere for Pettersson/Hughes. You pick and choose when its convenient to and suits your narrative.

 

You hear endless bitching and complaining about 2 fuckin picks TWO. But complete silence on everybody else.

 

https://forum.canucks.com/topic/398200-draft-edition-benning-vs-the-world/#comment-15938949
 

maybe by the end of that write up, you’ll understand why I think Benning was better at his job than most will give him credit for.

Funny, because I never praise the GM for listening to his scouts, just as other GM's state the DRAFT IS THE SCOUTS DAY

I will wait for a reason why you want to praise him as a good GM, before responding again

If you want why not  go higher and praise Aqua as well for the drafting

Edited November 22, 2023 by Ballisticsports

[AnthonyG]

18 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

Funny, because I never praise the GM for listening to his scouts, just as other GM's state the DRAFT IS THE SCOUTS DAY

I will wait for a reason why you want to praise him as a good GM, before responding again

If you want why not  go higher and praise Aqua as well for the drafting

Hmm lets see. If the hint wasnt enough with the failed drafting from ‘05-13 maybe the success from 2014-2020 is? What changed? Oh idk MAYBE THE SCOUTING DEPARTMENT.

Benning recognized an issue and addressed it.

- Development of NHL talent under him is no coincidence.

- We went from Chicago wolves to Uticah to right here in our own back yard. He brought player development home where it could be monitored much closer. 
- He wanted assurance on Pettersson and sent Delorme and Brackett to watch closely and took their word.

- His RFA negotiations 

- navigating a cap recapture season after season

- found ways to shed cap during a pandemic and still bring in names known around the league in order to fill the roster

- sheltering player development at the NHL level with Cup winner experience and well experienced veterans 

- his focus on player development and employing the right people in the right roles Ian Clarke, the Sedins, Judd Brackett

 

 

[Ballisticsports]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Hmm lets see. If the hint wasnt enough with the failed drafting from ‘05-13 maybe the success from 2014-2020 is? What changed? Oh idk MAYBE THE SCOUTING DEPARTMENT.

Benning recognized an issue and addressed it.

- Development of NHL talent under him is no coincidence.

- We went from Chicago wolves to Uticah to right here in our own back yard. He brought player development home where it could be monitored much closer. 
- He wanted assurance on Pettersson and sent Delorme and Brackett to watch closely and took their word.

- His RFA negotiations 

- navigating a cap recapture season after season

- found ways to shed cap during a pandemic and still bring in names known around the league in order to fill the roster

- sheltering player development at the NHL level with Cup winner experience and well experienced veterans 

- his focus on player development and employing the right people in the right roles Ian Clarke, the Sedins, Judd Brackett

 

 

8yrs !

Didn't he want assurance on EVERY pick ?

Cap recapture- You mean guys he spent picks and cap on, to sit on the bench, in the minors, on other teams and then give more pics to get rid of them shortly after?

Found names? -You mean the names that set us back and kept us at league bottom?

 

Remove him from the scouting staff with the most consecutive highest round pics The Good and Bad ones  and tell me WHY HE WAS A GOOD GM?

 

Never mind, you did convince me he was the greatest GM we ever had !

Thanks for making me see the light

[LillStrimma]

54 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

 

Funny because you guys and countless others will sit here and blame him for Virtanen and OJ and then give the credit elsewhere for Pettersson/Hughes. You pick and choose when its convenient to and suits your narrative.

 

You hear endless bitching and complaining about 2 fuckin picks TWO. But complete silence on everybody else.

 

https://forum.canucks.com/topic/398200-draft-edition-benning-vs-the-world/#comment-15938949
 

maybe by the end of that write up, you’ll understand why I think Benning was better at his job than most will give him credit for.

Hi there, you can watch the serie about Börje Salming. 
It has a little connection to Petey and the Canucks since Inge Hammarstöm is in there too.