Francesco Aquillini and Jim Benning --Tales of a Rebuild: Misconceptions, Misery, and Money

[iceman1964]

1 hour ago, LillStrimma said:

You can still get cheap players, tough players and so on… Benning was a failure and I truly believe you should stop defend him.

The ageing core etc is something you can build around.

We tried that before JB and look where it got us, and folks forget that not everyone wants to come to the smaller Canadian market to play instead of the bigger USA market like NY. Chicago etc etc. and at the time there wasn't much to choose from anyway, try and look at it this way as well, Vancouver couldn't handle a rebuild anyway which wasn't even possible with the pathetic state of the team when he took over. 

 However people think it would be just easy to do but not even close, especially with all the locked in players, do you think we could have won a Stanley cup like that? No way! 

 No one can get around contract law, the best anyone could do was wait out the aging core and form another one slowly which is exactly what he did, and then keep going..

Plus Luongo's recapture to the tune of millions as well.

 Not to mention fans who love to through players under the bus and say trade trade trade without considering who would want them to begin with, I'm not saying JB didn't make mistakes as any rookie GM would have but if you want to blame someone, blame Aquaman for hiring someone without a boatload of experience who actually would be willing to take over a ship that was in the middle of going under the waves with no help in sight, no farm, no prospects, and next to no picks.

If it was only that easy, if JB was handed a team without all the aging guys, a working farm, and picks, I'd certainly agree with you fully but that was anything but the case.

I'd defend anyone in the position JB was in no matter who it was, for those reasons. 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

On 11/29/2023 at 1:56 AM, filthy animal said:

Is this thread seriously still a thing? You got an OP that pretends that he's a business know it all but absolutely knows nothing and CONSTANTLY contradicts himself in every corner

The OP is former President Orange Man?

[AnthonyG]

On 12/12/2023 at 4:04 AM, Alflives said:

It appears this whole article is about staying competitive while rebuilding and that Benning was successful doing that. But we weren’t competitive. We were awful. 
It’s inarguable fact. Our most successful GM was Gillis. When he went to ownership and recommended to rebuild he got fired. That was the owner’s first mistake. Why in the heck did he fire the most successful GM we’ve ever had? Then our owner made his next mistake in hiring Benning. Then the dark ages came. Fans left the club in droves. While other clubs increased in value ours dropped. 
Finally our owner fired Benning and hired competent management again. Allvin is a lot like Gillis. Smart and has a plan. Benning had no plan. Suggesting he did is moronic. 

Gillis can get fucked, he sucked Alf. A good GM would have extended the window, he shut that shit so fast the moment he got a breeze from the Stanley cup.

failed to upgrade the roster in 2011-12 and got smoked. Dropped in the standings again and put forth a worse roster than the year prior and then 2013-14 all hope was gone. 3 fuckin years man and we went from SCF to bottom of the god damn league. Quit saying Gillis was successful. Did he win a cup? NO. He was a fucking failure at his job. He had one job to do and that was to win a cup. Came close and then fumble fucked it so hard after that.

 

If anyone deserves credit for being the best GM its Pat Quinn. 

[LillStrimma]

31 minutes ago, iceman1964 said:

We tried that before JB and look where it got us, and folks forget that not everyone wants to come to the smaller Canadian market to play instead of the bigger USA market like NY. Chicago etc etc. and at the time there wasn't much to choose from anyway, try and look at it this way as well, Vancouver couldn't handle a rebuild anyway which wasn't even possible with the pathetic state of the team when he took over. 

 However people think it would be just easy to do but not even close, especially with all the locked in players, do you think we could have won a Stanley cup like that? No way! 

 No one can get around contract law, the best anyone could do was wait out the aging core and form another one slowly which is exactly what he did, and then keep going..

Plus Luongo's recapture to the tune of millions as well.

 Not to mention fans who love to through players under the bus and say trade trade trade without considering who would want them to begin with, I'm not saying JB didn't make mistakes as any rookie GM would have but if you want to blame someone, blame Aquaman for hiring someone without a boatload of experience who actually would be willing to take over a ship that was in the middle of going under the waves with no help in sight, no farm, no prospects, and next to no picks.

If it was only that easy, if JB was handed a team without all the aging guys, a working farm, and picks, I'd certainly agree with you fully but that was anything but the case.

I'd defend anyone in the position JB was in no matter who it was, for those reasons. 

 

 

Well, it seems PA has moved the Canucks to Florida since he manage to do what Benning couldn’t.

Fascinating…

[iceman1964]

3 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Gillis can get fucked, he sucked Alf. A good GM would have extended the window, he shut that shit so fast the moment he got a breeze from the Stanley cup.

failed to upgrade the roster in 2011-12 and got smoked. Dropped in the standings again and put forth a worse roster than the year prior and then 2013-14 all hope was gone. 3 fuckin years man and we went from SCF to bottom of the god damn league. Quit saying Gillis was successful. Did he win a cup? NO. He was a fucking failure at his job. He had one job to do and that was to win a cup. Came close and then fumble fucked it so hard after that.

 

If anyone deserves credit for being the best GM its Pat Quinn. 

Like almost every other GM we had before, Gillis sold the farm for a depthless roster, nothing new though, I sure hope JR and PA don't do the same or we'll  be F'd just like always..  seems to me that they won't but that would be great news if they didn't!  The one and done routine never got us shite EVER! 

 Can you imagine if we built the team and then kept it going so we were a genuine threat every year, not just one? Wow I can't even fathom that! 

 

[filthy animal]

3 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

The OP is former President Orange Man?

Yup, sure sounds like a MAGA reject just like grampa who talks like a tik tokker, icecream64, iceice1968, whatever his name is.

 

Oh look, AnnoyingG -oof is back, i guess his stint in employment didnt last too long. El oh eL

Edited December 14, 2023 by filthy animal

[Dr. Crossbar]

Good interview with (a bearded) Mike Gillis today and his memories of Luongo ... but also touches on deals and decisions made during his tenure. Also discusses last post-Cup years and his conflict with Torts.

 

It's clearly obvious how everyone associated with the 2011 team still feels the pain of such a devastating loss. It's evident in this interview. 

 

Good interview ...

 

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Dr. Crossbar

[Hogs and Podz]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Good interview with (a bearded) Mike Gillis today and his memories of Luongo ... but also touches on deals and decisions made during his tenure. Also discusses last post-Cup years and his conflict with Torts.

 

It's clearly obvious how everyone associated with the 2011 team still feels the pain of such a devastating loss. It's evident in this interview. 

 

Good interview ...

 

 

Yes... Begrudgingly... I actually pressed play to be a documented view... Which if you've followed aome of my past post.  I detest subclass&liced.  Seeing Gillis with the yeoman beard... Couldn't resist.  

 

Gillis still suffers from that loss you can really tell....  Kinda feel bad for the guy... Whether he derseves my sympathy is another matter.  But his palpable resentment  re-woke a little in me as well.  All to do with the blatant unfair politics behind the Luongo recapture. 

 

Gillis blatantly states they were not made aware that the contract structure would carry penalty if carried out.  Yet as we all know it was.... 

 

Obviously the recapture penalty expired but the distrust it created for me of the NHL is still relevant.  Anyway... Regardless, it seems Gillis made very few friends within NHL upper management circles.  I hope he writes a book one day, outing Bettman and co.  

[Ballisticsports]

3 hours ago, iceman1964 said:

We tried that before JB and look where it got us, and folks forget that not everyone wants to come to the smaller Canadian market to play instead of the bigger USA market like NY. Chicago etc etc. and at the time there wasn't much to choose from anyway, try and look at it this way as well, Vancouver couldn't handle a rebuild anyway which wasn't even possible with the pathetic state of the team when he took over. 

 However people think it would be just easy to do but not even close, especially with all the locked in players, do you think we could have won a Stanley cup like that? No way! 

 No one can get around contract law, the best anyone could do was wait out the aging core and form another one slowly which is exactly what he did, and then keep going..

Plus Luongo's recapture to the tune of millions as well.

 Not to mention fans who love to through players under the bus and say trade trade trade without considering who would want them to begin with, I'm not saying JB didn't make mistakes as any rookie GM would have but if you want to blame someone, blame Aquaman for hiring someone without a boatload of experience who actually would be willing to take over a ship that was in the middle of going under the waves with no help in sight, no farm, no prospects, and next to no picks.

If it was only that easy, if JB was handed a team without all the aging guys, a working farm, and picks, I'd certainly agree with you fully but that was anything but the case.

I'd defend anyone in the position JB was in no matter who it was, for those reasons. 

 

 

Why are you defending  and arguing against about how JB felt about the team he inherited ?

 

In 2014 JB upon being hired said that despite last season's performance, he still believes the core group of veterans can be part of a quick turnaround.

"They're high-character people. When Trevor did the exit meetings with them, they felt bad about what happened this last year," said Benning. "We're going to try and help them out by having more depth on our roster, playing four lines and (hiring the right coach).

"Some of the players, for whatever reason, just didn't have a good year last year. It's a good team, it's a talented team and I feel confident that these guys are going to have a good year next year."

 

In 2016 he said upon getting TL Job

“Realistically, if you’re asking me when will the day be that we can compete with the best teams in the league, I think that [Sedin contract] timeline is fair,” said Benning. “This is year two, and by our fourth or fifth year, I hope we’ll be there with the elite teams in the league.”

So by his own words that was 2018 we would be with the elite teams

 

In 2019 Still delusional saying he was liking his team depth, when asked further

Sportsnet:  But isn’t your depth on defence still thin compared to what you have up front?

Benning:  Olli Juolevi played (Friday) night for Utica and had a real strong game. So we’re getting Olli up and going down there. Get him lots of minutes and get his confidence up, so he’s a guy we feel we can bring up at some point and get him games. (Ashton) Sautner had a good camp and we know what he is — he can be a call-up guy for us on the third pair. Jalen Chatfield and Guillaume Brisebois had good camps. The point I’m trying to make is I feel we have good depth on defence with young players. And if we do have injuries back there, these guys can come up and play NHL games.

 

Either he has no idea how to build or he simply says things to look like a fool to keep his job

I could have done way more silly quotes by him, but what is the point?

By now no matter what info is provided people want to believe otherwise, 

My point is, why the need to defend JB, who says the opposite of what you say?

 

[filthy animal]

18 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

Why are you defending  and arguing against about how JB felt about the team he inherited ?

 

In 2014 JB upon being hired said that despite last season's performance, he still believes the core group of veterans can be part of a quick turnaround.

"They're high-character people. When Trevor did the exit meetings with them, they felt bad about what happened this last year," said Benning. "We're going to try and help them out by having more depth on our roster, playing four lines and (hiring the right coach).

"Some of the players, for whatever reason, just didn't have a good year last year. It's a good team, it's a talented team and I feel confident that these guys are going to have a good year next year."

 

In 2016 he said upon getting TL Job

“Realistically, if you’re asking me when will the day be that we can compete with the best teams in the league, I think that [Sedin contract] timeline is fair,” said Benning. “This is year two, and by our fourth or fifth year, I hope we’ll be there with the elite teams in the league.”

So by his own words that was 2018 we would be with the elite teams

 

In 2019 Still delusional saying he was liking his team depth, when asked further

Sportsnet:  But isn’t your depth on defence still thin compared to what you have up front?

Benning:  Olli Juolevi played (Friday) night for Utica and had a real strong game. So we’re getting Olli up and going down there. Get him lots of minutes and get his confidence up, so he’s a guy we feel we can bring up at some point and get him games. (Ashton) Sautner had a good camp and we know what he is — he can be a call-up guy for us on the third pair. Jalen Chatfield and Guillaume Brisebois had good camps. The point I’m trying to make is I feel we have good depth on defence with young players. And if we do have injuries back there, these guys can come up and play NHL games.

 

Either he has no idea how to build or he simply says things to look like a fool to keep his job

I could have done way more silly quotes by him, but what is the point?

By now no matter what info is provided people want to believe otherwise, 

My point is, why the need to defend JB, who says the opposite of what you say?

 

 

 

Wait a sec? So are you saying even Benning himself said he inherited a good team?  The main idiotic Benning bros arguement of how he got a bad team just got crushed by their own guy. Cant make this stuff up.

 

Cue the excuses from the baguette lover, the AnnoyingG-oof, and gramps who thinks hes a millenial.

 

eL oH El

 

 

[conquestofbaguettes]

7 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

The OP is former President Orange Man?

No. But we've witnessed many of the vehement Benning haters follow the orange man's scapegoating techniques to a T.  It's interesting.

 

[conquestofbaguettes]

7 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Well, it seems PA has moved the Canucks to Florida since he manage to do what Benning couldn’t.

Fascinating…

Allvin would have been in the same shit boat if he was dealing with what Benning had to deal with at that time. This club, this team, is at a vastly different state then it was before.  And no not cuz "allvin so amazing" but because this club isn't at the EARLY stages of a rebuild anymore.

 

  It's called context.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_(linguistics)

 

And frankly if Benning was still here I bet he'd look as good as Allvin given the stars his regime produced are now in their primes. Bennings core. Still here. And kicking ass.

 

 

[conquestofbaguettes]

7 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Gillis can get fucked, he sucked Alf. A good GM would have extended the window, he shut that shit so fast the moment he got a breeze from the Stanley cup.

failed to upgrade the roster in 2011-12 and got smoked. Dropped in the standings again and put forth a worse roster than the year prior and then 2013-14 all hope was gone. 3 fuckin years man and we went from SCF to bottom of the god damn league. Quit saying Gillis was successful. Did he win a cup? NO. He was a fucking failure at his job. He had one job to do and that was to win a cup. Came close and then fumble fucked it so hard after that.

 

If anyone deserves credit for being the best GM its Pat Quinn. 

And the kicker is Gillis didn't even build that 2010-11 team we love. He inherited it. The bulk of the work was done by Dave Nonis and Brian Burke! To be fair Gillis added a few cherries  but youre right. He left them absolutely nothing in the cupboards for the future. I don't neccesarily blame him for doing it because you have to strike while the iron is hot. Nevertheless the years that followed is what it looks like when you take your shot and miss.

[LillStrimma]

6 minutes ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

Allvin would have been in the same shit boat if he was dealing with what Benning had to deal with at that time. This club, this team, is at a vastly different state then it was before.  And no not cuz "allvin so amazing" but because this club isn't at the EARLY stages of a rebuild anymore.

 

  It's called context.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_(linguistics)

 

And frankly if Benning was still here I bet he'd look as good as Allvin given the stars his regime produced are now in their primes. Bennings core. Still here. And kicking ass.

 

 

The only context interesting here is that Benning paid 3 mill for 1,5 mill players wich meant he crippled the whole Canuck organisation.

I said it many years ago that it looked like Benning took money under the table just to get lucrative contracts to old vets.

So bad were his business dealiengs.

Edited December 14, 2023 by LillStrimma

[conquestofbaguettes]

1 minute ago, LillStrimma said:

The only context interesting here is that Benning paid 3 mill for 1,5 mill players wich meant he crippled the whole Canuck organisation.

I said it many years ago that it looked like Benning took money under the table just to get lucrative contracts to old vets.

So bad were his business dealiengs.

 

And when did he sign those? Early rebuilding years trying to ice a competitive product to keep the corporate coffers full for the duration. (Or at least limit losses the best they could.)

 

Most those guys you speak of were placeholders. They had yet to draft the stars they needed so what do you. You can go down the list.  Anyone from Jay Beagle to Sam Gagne, the Granlunds, Linden Veys.... they were exactly what they were supposed to be.  Stop gap fillers and little more. 

 

But it all stems back to that initial decision by ownership to stay competitive. Yes, context matters here.

 

Fuck me. I didn't like a great deal of the signings and trades either, dude.  But what did we reasonably expect them to do with that "stay competitive" mandate on the table. Exactly what we saw. And then it becomes a question of who's available in the market to fill those open roster holes.

 

You want a guy to come to a losing rebuilder? You're likely going to pay above market rates to convince them to sign there.

 

And that happens with losing rebuilders around the league all the time. Christ look at Kyle Burroughs.  The Sharks gave him a 3 year deal at 1.1 per. You think a 7th/8th calibre defenseman (on a good team) would be getting a 3 year deal like that? Not a chance.

 

Paid too much? Contract too long? Yep. Why is the question.

 

Again, context matters here.

[AnthonyG]

9 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

The only context interesting here is that Benning paid 3 mill for 1,5 mill players wich meant he crippled the whole Canuck organisation.

I said it many years ago that it looked like Benning took money under the table just to get lucrative contracts to old vets.

So bad were his business dealiengs.

During rebuilding years, you have to over pay to get actual NHL players to sign and stick it out through a rebuild. If you actually comprehend the moves he made and why certain guys were brought in, you would understand it was the signalling of the passing of the torch and it was all about sheltered development at the NHL level. Beagle Roussel and Schaller replacing the twins for scoring????? Lmfao nope. They were brought in purely as role players to allow our youngsters to just focus on offence and SLOWLY learn the defensive side, hence Peteys last couple seasons of defensive utilization coming through. 
what really made those signings look “bad” is the fact Petey and Hughes not only made the jump to the NHL its that they were instant impact players and changed the game for us. EVERYONE expected it to take time and for them to struggle especially with their size/weight, yet right from the getgo they made a name for themselves. 

[Ballisticsports]

10 hours ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

Allvin would have been in the same shit boat if he was dealing with what Benning had to deal with at that time. This club, this team, is at a vastly different state then it was before.  And no not cuz "allvin so amazing" but because this club isn't at the EARLY stages of a rebuild anymore.

 

  It's called context.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Context_(linguistics)

 

And frankly if Benning was still here I bet he'd look as good as Allvin given the stars his regime produced are now in their primes. Bennings core. Still here. And kicking ass.

 

 

Absolutely Not and more CONJECTURE from you

JB said immediately that he had a good team and players and was to be elite in 2018 !!  (His words not mine or yours)

He can't identify players he needs to BUILD a team (lol keeping us competitive at the bottom of the league you say)?

JR/PA said they have a lot of work to do upon taking the team and have made 1/2 of the NHL trades since Sept while in a flat cap for years and capped out

 

They identify lesser paid players who fit the team they want to BUILD (even as hard as that is) and as much as they like Baer, they weren't signing him at all costs and term- these guys are smart and patient for the right deal and not a crippling deal

 

The fact is JB sucked at his job description of what a GM is 

End of story

 

Keep your silly thread going, it doesn't warrant this much discussion and attention (and I have been guilty of doing just that)

But done now, thank goodness JB is gone and everyone can move forward with finally a plan in place

[AnthonyG]

26 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

Absolutely Not and more CONJECTURE from you

JB said immediately that he had a good team and players and was to be elite in 2018 !!  (His words not mine or yours)

He can't identify players he needs to BUILD a team (lol keeping us competitive at the bottom of the league you say)?

JR/PA said they have a lot of work to do upon taking the team and have made 1/2 of the NHL trades since Sept while in a flat cap for years and capped out

 

They identify lesser paid players who fit the team they want to BUILD (even as hard as that is) and as much as they like Baer, they weren't signing him at all costs and term- these guys are smart and patient for the right deal and not a crippling deal

 

The fact is JB sucked at his job description of what a GM is 

End of story

 

Keep your silly thread going, it doesn't warrant this much discussion and attention (and I have been guilty of doing just that)

But done now, thank goodness JB is gone and everyone can move forward with finally a plan in place

Lmao you aint movin on without Miller, Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, Demko now Hoglander, soon to be Podkolzin hopefully, Karlsson is looking good, Tolipolo, Silovs… buddy be fuckin thankful for JB. The fact he was able to build an entire core AND toss a couple things in the cupboards in under 8 years is fucking massive. He came in and did his job, your insane if you think he was brought in to win a cup. He went through more adversity than any other GM in the history of the god damn sport.

- Inheritted a cap recapture

- almost zero prospects

- aged out washed up core with little to no value to help accelerate a rebuild

- 2 expansion drafts

- a flattened cap

- COVID putting our season on pause for a month and having a serious impact on the health of our team, THE ONLY team to suffer this set back.

 

 

You guys think this team all of the sudden learned to start winning now with what PA and JR have done??? Lmfao buddy right after JB and Green were let go, Vancouver, with no roster changes shot up in the standings and missed playoffs by 3 wins, THREE WINS and thats with Pettersson playing like absolute dog shit the first 40 games where he was held pointless 24 fucking times. Maybe if he had his shit together and showed up to camp early and ready to go like last year, we woulda been a playoff team. 
PA made changes to the team and we got shittier last year. Whats up with that? PAs big UFA signing has 5 fuckin goals and it cost us an additional 4.75mil to sign the guy. Fuck sakes man Hoglander has as many goals as Mikheyev and nearly as many points too and he had to earn ice time, Mikheyev was gifted it, same as Kuzmenko who has lost his ice time.

 

Right now its pretty much alllll JB guys driving this bus.

Why didnt PA move Garland 2 seasons ago when he had value?

Why did JR openly state if we missed playoffs last year it would be a disaster, an utter failure??

Why did PA keep the team together and add to it last year???

BECAUSE THE TEAM IN PLACE WHEN HE TOOK OVER WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO COMPETE. Health just held us back and shit goaltending last year.

Jim Rutherford firmly believed in this team at the end of 2021-22. If he believed in it, does that make him a fucking idiot because he believed in Jim Bennings work?

 

[conquestofbaguettes]

5 hours ago, Ballisticsports said:

Absolutely Not and more CONJECTURE from you

JB said immediately that he had a good team and players and was to be elite in 2018 !!  (His words not mine or yours)

He can't identify players he needs to BUILD a team (lol keeping us competitive at the bottom of the league you say)?

 

Absolutely yes. Any GM would have been dealt the same hand with the same demands on the table from ownership at that time.  This whole idea "things would have been different with a different GM" is flat out fantasy. Even Trevor Linden couldn't change that "stay competitive" path.

 

Secondly, we need to talk about the Benning regime in two time periods:

 

1) Retool with Sedins

-The org felt indebted to the Sedins and wanted to give them one more shot.

 

2) Rebuild after Sedins retirement

-stay competitive to keep asses in seats, build the few picks they had. Yes, keeping them "competitive" regardless of where they finished in the standings. Wasn't about whether they lost games so much as about how they lost.  

This is an important distinction.

 

5 hours ago, Ballisticsports said:

JR/PA said they have a lot of work to do upon taking the team and have made 1/2 of the NHL trades since Sept while in a flat cap for years and capped out

 

And?

 

5 hours ago, Ballisticsports said:

 

They identify lesser paid players who fit the team they want to BUILD (even as hard as that is) and as much as they like Baer, they weren't signing him at all costs and term- these guys are smart and patient for the right deal and not a crippling deal

 

And?   And when you say "crippling deal" I assume you mean to say JB had many "crippling" deals.  But context is important here:

 

1) why were players paid more for longer than they otherwise should have in those rebuild years?

Convincing players to come to a losing rebuilder costs more.

 

2) unforeseeable pandemic and flat cap.

 

Would some deals even have been signed at those numbers and lengths eg. Myers, had they known?  No. The projections change.

 

Even Rutherford said he would have done the same thing ie. Signing players thinking the cap was going to keep going up and up.

 

3) Benning era and Allvin era are NOT comparables in terms of team development in their given eras.

 

For example, in 2016+ who did they have for bonafide stars?

 

Who do they have now and where are those players in their development?

 

 Context is important 

 

5 hours ago, Ballisticsports said:

The fact is JB sucked at his job description of what a GM is 

End of story

 

I can see thats where your story ends.  Unfortunately there's much more to the story which needs to be discussed before making such declaratory judgments about most any GM.

5 hours ago, Ballisticsports said:

Keep your silly thread going, it doesn't warrant this much discussion and attention (and I have been guilty of doing just that)

But done now, thank goodness JB is gone and everyone can move forward with finally a plan in place

That's the kicker.

 

Even the Benning regime had a plan. But it was a plan people failed to recognize and/or didn't like because they held some ideal in mind about what a rebuild is supposed to be and how you're supposed to do it.

 

And fun fact: Jim Rutherford spoke about "rebuilds" on Donnie and Dhali yesterday:

 

"Rebuilds are interesting...  it turns out for some teams and it doesn't work out for all teams. Obviously when a team took a step back and rebuilt and won a Stanley cup everybody points to it and says "oh boy why don't we do that." But they don't point to teams that have been in rebuilds for 10 years and haven't got there either."

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by conquestofbaguettes

[LillStrimma]

45 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Lmao you aint movin on without Miller, Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes, Demko now Hoglander, soon to be Podkolzin hopefully, Karlsson is looking good, Tolipolo, Silovs… buddy be fuckin thankful for JB. The fact he was able to build an entire core AND toss a couple things in the cupboards in under 8 years is fucking massive. He came in and did his job, your insane if you think he was brought in to win a cup. He went through more adversity than any other GM in the history of the god damn sport.

- Inheritted a cap recapture

- almost zero prospects

- aged out washed up core with little to no value to help accelerate a rebuild

- 2 expansion drafts

- a flattened cap

- COVID putting our season on pause for a month and having a serious impact on the health of our team, THE ONLY team to suffer this set back.

 

 

You guys think this team all of the sudden learned to start winning now with what PA and JR have done??? Lmfao buddy right after JB and Green were let go, Vancouver, with no roster changes shot up in the standings and missed playoffs by 3 wins, THREE WINS and thats with Pettersson playing like absolute dog shit the first 40 games where he was held pointless 24 fucking times. Maybe if he had his shit together and showed up to camp early and ready to go like last year, we woulda been a playoff team. 
PA made changes to the team and we got shittier last year. Whats up with that? PAs big UFA signing has 5 fuckin goals and it cost us an additional 4.75mil to sign the guy. Fuck sakes man Hoglander has as many goals as Mikheyev and nearly as many points too and he had to earn ice time, Mikheyev was gifted it, same as Kuzmenko who has lost his ice time.

 

Right now its pretty much alllll JB guys driving this bus.

Why didnt PA move Garland 2 seasons ago when he had value?

Why did JR openly state if we missed playoffs last year it would be a disaster, an utter failure??

Why did PA keep the team together and add to it last year???

BECAUSE THE TEAM IN PLACE WHEN HE TOOK OVER WAS GOOD ENOUGH TO COMPETE. Health just held us back and shit goaltending last year.

Jim Rutherford firmly believed in this team at the end of 2021-22. If he believed in it, does that make him a fucking idiot because he believed in Jim Bennings work?

 

It seems you got lost in statistics.

 

The main thing that showed how bad Benning shat his bed was the moves around getting OEL and the price tag of him and Garland. Insane that you defend that crap.

Benning made his bed spending to the cap all the time so when he noticed the core was better than he anticipated. he got stressed and couldn’t handle the situation.

 

Every single team in NHL had the same problem with Cap so stop use that as a bad excuse…

[AnthonyG]

55 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

It seems you got lost in statistics.

 

The main thing that showed how bad Benning shat his bed was the moves around getting OEL and the price tag of him and Garland. Insane that you defend that crap.

Benning made his bed spending to the cap all the time so when he noticed the core was better than he anticipated. he got stressed and couldn’t handle the situation.

 

Every single team in NHL had the same problem with Cap so stop use that as a bad excuse…

It seems you are just clueless when it comes to statistics. OEL top 10 in the league defensively in 2021-22. Did I get lost in statistics??? Pettersson pointless in 24 of the first 40 games in 2021-22??? Not a single fucking complaint from ANYONE about Petterssons dog shit 40 game stretch top line minutes, PP1, goalie pulled for the extra man opportunities all coming to a dead halt because Elias fuckin Pettersson couldnt fuckin score or do anything to help the team win. He brought our top line down, he crippled our PP1 and he made no use of the goalie being pulled for 40 games. Pettersson was healthy, so what was his excuse?? Took him half a season to get going alllllll because he chose to have his hot boy summer and show up last minute to camp. Which taught his ass a valuable lesson and last year he was early to camp, same again this year and look at him, he’s producing big time. 

 

Lol PA could have moved Garland 2 seasons ago when he had value. Then it dipped last year and this year has been a bit of a rough go with production.

 

Hows OEL doin on that top 10 Florida team who is technically tied for 5th. Sure holding them back eh? Tied for 3rd in goals for dmen. Sure glad we bought him out instead of moving Myers with retention and saving ourselves the penalty of a buyout.

[LillStrimma]

21 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

It seems you are just clueless when it comes to statistics. OEL top 10 in the league defensively in 2021-22. Did I get lost in statistics??? Pettersson pointless in 24 of the first 40 games in 2021-22??? Not a single fucking complaint from ANYONE about Petterssons dog shit 40 game stretch top line minutes, PP1, goalie pulled for the extra man opportunities all coming to a dead halt because Elias fuckin Pettersson couldnt fuckin score or do anything to help the team win. He brought our top line down, he crippled our PP1 and he made no use of the goalie being pulled for 40 games. Pettersson was healthy, so what was his excuse?? Took him half a season to get going alllllll because he chose to have his hot boy summer and show up last minute to camp. Which taught his ass a valuable lesson and last year he was early to camp, same again this year and look at him, he’s producing big time. 

 

Lol PA could have moved Garland 2 seasons ago when he had value. Then it dipped last year and this year has been a bit of a rough go with production.

 

Hows OEL doin on that top 10 Florida team who is technically tied for 5th. Sure holding them back eh? Tied for 3rd in goals for dmen. Sure glad we bought him out instead of moving Myers with retention and saving ourselves the penalty of a buyout.

Forget about moving Garland… That was a real cap dump.

OEL, no matter how good he was 21/22 he was a player Tocchet wanted out of Arizona and Benning fell for it.

Do you know how much the really good player OEL got today? 2 mill… That’s face value of a LHD.

If we compare the OEL and Hronek deals it’s mindblowing how bad Benning screwed himself to get a leftie. If Benning only tried for a rightie of OELs caliber but no he got a leftie the Canucks current coach tossed to the wolves. 

Florida is a good team with a lot of offensive acumen

 

Then regarding Petey, if you trashtalk him you can go water some daisies instead of watching games.

Understand that he is the player that wins important games and makes the ridiculus easy.

I’ve said it before and have to say it again.

Let Petey and Hughes roam on the right side as Miller and Hughes have done a lot.

Petey would have much more points to his resume.

 

 

[48MPHSlapshot]

It still feels weird having a competent GM. Free agent signings and trades that don't cripple the franchise for years?!? Who here thought that was even possible after Benning!?

[AnthonyG]

2 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Forget about moving Garland… That was a real cap dump.

OEL, no matter how good he was 21/22 he was a player Tocchet wanted out of Arizona and Benning fell for it.

Do you know how much the really good player OEL got today? 2 mill… That’s face value of a LHD.

If we compare the OEL and Hronek deals it’s mindblowing how bad Benning screwed himself to get a leftie. If Benning only tried for a rightie of OELs caliber but no he got a leftie the Canucks current coach tossed to the wolves. 

Florida is a good team with a lot of offensive acumen

 

Then regarding Petey, if you trashtalk him you can go water some daisies instead of watching games.

Understand that he is the player that wins important games and makes the ridiculus easy.

I’ve said it before and have to say it again.

Let Petey and Hughes roam on the right side as Miller and Hughes have done a lot.

Petey would have much more points to his resume.

 

 

All players should be held accountable.

we missed playoffs BECAUSE of Pettersson. 2021-22 showing up last minute to camp and not taking it seriously, then played like absolute shit for basically 40 straight games while being given EVERY single offensive opportunity and squandering it 24 times. Everyone else was pulling their weight. You dont think for one moment that in those 18 regulation losses, during that 40 game stretch Pettersson might not have had an impact and helped us win a few more games which would have resulted in playoffs?????? He registered one single fucking point in those 18 losses and was -16, before he finally got his shit together and we went on a tear as an entire team.

 

[conquestofbaguettes]

18 minutes ago, 48MPHSlapshot said:

It still feels weird having a competent GM. Free agent signings and trades that don't cripple the franchise for years?!? Who here thought that was even possible after Benning!?

 

They wouldn't have been "crippled" if the pandemic and flat cap didn't happen these past few years.  For example Tyler Myers wouldn't have recieved a 6×6 contract in the first place.  The financial projections change.

 

Rutherford stated the problem was GMs signing deals thinking the cap would keep going up and up. And that even he would have done the same thing!

 

Blaming previous management for "crippling" them is mostly just low hanging fruit.  Much more to the story here than just "previous GM bad."

Edited December 14, 2023 by conquestofbaguettes