[PGT] New York Islanders at Vancouver Canucks // November 15, 2023

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

The look on Millets face in front of the net was priceless.  I'm thinking all he did was hear it

Swish! 

[Barn Burner]

8 minutes ago, MikeyD said:

No way hronek makes more than Hughes. 

Last year was Hronek's best year - 38 pts in 60 games. 

 

If he continues this pace, he'll get a raise, no doubt. And it shouldn't be as much or more than Hughes.

 

I hope that management would offer a shorter term, show-me deal. We'll see.

 

It doesn't look like it's a one-off, but looking at his best previous year, it's quite the jump in production. And of course, it is his contract year. 

 

Either way, keep it up. He's been playing lights-out! 

[Goal_thecup]

2 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

That is insane. Is he our representative for hardest shot?

Faster Harder than Petey now

FTFY

[IBatch]

20 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

A player thinking "the cap is going up therefore most of it should go to me" is putting themselves before the team. I don't think Petey will do that. This leadership group is team-first and understand that a cap efficient team can win cups.

Yep.  And this team doesn't have a 16.4% tax differential that TB, Vegas, Dallas, Florida and SEA have.   So don't be shocked if things become top heavy. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Barn Burner said:

Last year was Hronek's best year - 38 pts in 60 games. 

 

If he continues this pace, he'll get a raise, no doubt. And it shouldn't be as much or more than Hughes.

 

I hope that management would offer a shorter term, show-me deal. We'll see.

 

It doesn't look like it's a one-off, but looking at his best previous year, it's quite the jump in production. And of course, it is his contract year. 

 

Either way, keep it up. He's been playing lights-out! 

 

It's not about the salary, it's about the percentage of the cap.  It's not Hroneks fault that Hughes signed a long term deal and then broke out.  If he continues this pace, Hronek will get more than Hughes 

[PhillipBlunt]

51 minutes ago, The Duke said:

I love that they’re apparently back talking again. It’s a good sign.

Agreed. Elias knows this is where he belongs. 

[The Duke]

15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Let's be real.   Kesler didn't take less, neither did the Sedins, it was the worst financial crisis we'd had since the great depression.   Burrows took less, and then was paid for it.   Luongo took a ton, all front loaded.   You have to go by cap percentage, and also look at what they'd done until their deals were signed.   

 

 

Edit:  As for now, Miller took a lot less cap percentage wise than one Sedin, even though he'd produced more.   Let's see what the rest do.   People forget that the core back then,  didn't allow for a winger for Kesler either.   Not a big winger well paid anyways.   We spend a lot on the D core as well.  Cap percentage.    The deals were actually in the supporting casts, but when they were well paid and given full clauses (Hansen).    It was a great team for sure, but they were all well paid compared to their peers back then as well.   And it did have its faults.   It was a little top heavy.   We paid close to 40% for four players.  

 

Edit:  And we traded for Kesler's winger in Booth.  And Ballard was added.  Both got bought out and it was pretty much exactly the cap savings we accrued from all the clauses. 

According to capfriendly Kesler made about 8.5% of the cap while sedins made about 10.5%.

 

Miller’s deal right now is 9.7% - but maybe this goes down (and maybe Kesler and the Sedins started higher.)  
 

But either way that still seems a deal for Kes/Sedins who were at the top of the food chain.  Literally.  Selke and Art Ross winners.
 

Matthews, for example, makes about 14% and goes up to over 16% next year.  Again, that next contract % will come down as time passes - but you can’t say Kesler/Twins couldn’t have made more.

Edited November 16, 2023 by The Duke

[JayDangles]

6 hours ago, Mikeyman109 said:

he has looked shaky a couple times but with what he has done to settle down a few of the D men this year I will give him a pass . I hope it doesnt continue though. It could cost us in the long run if he keeps that up

I give Cole a pass because he just broke even in my books. His hit on Duschene was amazing, and led to an instigator penalty. Then his hit on Robertson in the Toronto game led to Domi taking an instigator. 

But no more puck over glass penalties!

 

[higgyfan]

6 minutes ago, The Duke said:

The 2011 Canucks agreed to take a little less to stay together - I think Kes or Burrows got their hands slapped by the PA for going public with that.  That was a special group that grew up together, though. 
 

I’m ready to accept Petey getting 12x8 or something like that, but what do you think Hronek gets?  9x8?  
 

Will they even go 8?  I just hope Petey doesn’t “Matthews” it and take the shorter term as well. I like the idea of locking him up through his prime with this contract.

 

That seems like too much for Hronek, which is significantly more than what Quinn makes.  I

don't like the idea of Brock making more $ than Miller either; even if he does get 35goals.  He

still has next season to see if he can maintain that level of scoring.

 

One thing for sure, is that by the time Brock, Kuzy are UFAs the salary cap will have gone up

by $9m,($4m next season and $5m the following) which covers the awful OEL payments as well an

increase for one of Brock/Kuzy.

 

A big factor will be the readiness of several prospects.  There are some decent possibilities

for the next two seasons, including; Lekker, Podz, Raty, Bains, D-Petey, Willander, Brzustewicz

Aman,Silovs and there may be others.  Adding some low cost contracts to the team will help

reduce the salary cap over the next 3yrs.

 

 

[EdgarM]

13 hours ago, Jester13 said:

This. People think we're overachieving due to how bad we've been, but we were actually underachieving those bad years. Now we're doing what we're capable of.

This is bang on Jester! Our coaching was so bad and we had guys playing the wrong roles, it was down right depressing to watch the last couple of years.

We weren't even doing the basics right where we couldn't even have decent line changes. Its like we've been playing shinny hockey with no direction or structure.

We had no leadership and management had no idea what they were doing. 

Somebody just needed to identify the problems and start fixing them. The proper management and coaches were the main components to this change we are seeing now.

Who would have thought Myers could be a half decent defenseman or that Boeser could return back to his rookie scoring ways.

Once I seen we were losing our old habits and started to play hockey the right way again? I knew we were going to up but I had no idea we were going to be where we are today, its a nice surprise as a Canuck fan for sure. GCG! 

[Barn Burner]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

It's not about the salary, it's about the percentage of the cap.  It's not Hroneks fault that Hughes signed a long term deal and then broke out.  If he continues this pace, Hronek will get more than Hughes 

I understand that, but my main point is - his best season was 38 pts in 60 games. 

 

I"d at least want to see a repeat of this season before signing him to a bigger deal. 

 

That's just my opinion. 

[JayDangles]

26 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

A player thinking "the cap is going up therefore most of it should go to me" is putting themselves before the team. I don't think Petey will do that. This leadership group is team-first and understand that a cap efficient team can win cups.

I'm not so sure about that. Petey (and Hughes) both missed training camp a few years ago holding out for more money. In the end it all worked out. But I'm a little concerned this might be the case again.

I do hope you're right though.

[The Duke]

@IBatch

 

i agree 100% though that having elite talent at the top of the lineup will cause some guys to take discounts at the bottom of the lineup.  Both by necessity and as a perk of signing with the club.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, The Duke said:

@IBatch

 

i agree 100% though that having elite talent at the top of the lineup will cause some guys to take discounts at the bottom of the lineup.  Both by necessity and as a perk of signing with the club.

The problem is that the kinds of players you need as support players aren't guys who will take bottom of the barrel deals, imo.  Again, Vegas has done a masterful job at spreading their cap around

[Canuck You]

...but it was nice of him..

 

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

 

That seems like too much for Hronek, which is significantly more than what Quinn makes.  I

don't like the idea of Brock making more $ than Miller either; even if he does get 35goals.  He

still has next season to see if he can maintain that level of scoring.

 

One thing for sure, is that by the time Brock, Kuzy are UFAs the salary cap will have gone up

by $9m,($4m next season and $5m the following) which covers the awful OEL payments as well an

increase for one of Brock/Kuzy.

 

A big factor will be the readiness of several prospects.  There are some decent possibilities

for the next two seasons, including; Lekker, Podz, Raty, Bains, D-Petey, Willander, Brzustewicz

Aman,Silovs and there may be others.  Adding some low cost contracts to the team will help

reduce the salary cap over the next 3yrs.

 

 

Honestly, I think they'll pivot to a re-tool in 3 years and move out alot of the current core.

[Jester13]

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I'm not so sure about that. Petey (and Hughes) both missed training camp a few years ago holding out for more money. In the end it all worked out. But I'm a little concerned this might be the case again.

I do hope you're right though.

That was due to Benning being a moron with the cap, so he had to squeeze them a ton having handcuffed himself. That's when players were starting to sour on management. If the cap was properly managed, we probably could've had Petey and Hughes already signed to 8x8 deals. 

 

Allvin has Castonguay and the others around them. They have a plan that the players understand. Everyone has bought into the professionalism now. Petey wanted to see how the team performs, well, now he knows that we're building something special. A team-friendly deal (which will still render him rich af) to have the chance to win championships is a great negotiating stance that management can pull off.

[JayDangles]

Just now, Jester13 said:

That was due to Benning being a moron with the cap, so he had to squeeze them a ton having handcuffed himself. That's when players were starting to sour on management. If the cap was properly managed, we probably could've had Petey and Hughes already signed to 8x8 deals. 

 

Allvin has Castonguay and the others around them. They have a plan that the players understand. Everyone has bought into the professionalism now. Petey wanted to see how the team performs, well, now he knows that we're building something special. A team-friendly deal (which will still render him rich af) to have the chance to win championships is a great negotiating stance that management can pull off.

I'm with you. If the goal was convincing Petey this is a team that can win, and that he is an important part of that, we could not have had a better start!

[The Duke]

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

The problem is that the kinds of players you need as support players aren't guys who will take bottom of the barrel deals, imo.  Again, Vegas has done a masterful job at spreading their cap around

I agree it’s hard to find a path to true “contendership” - we feel a little lucky (Hronek building off last year, multiple top guys having career years) just to get here.  We need one more bounce or two (Raty, Willander?) to get there. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

That was due to Benning being a moron with the cap, so he had to squeeze them a ton having handcuffed himself. That's when players were starting to sour on management. If the cap was properly managed, we probably could've had Petey and Hughes already signed to 8x8 deals. 

 

Allvin has Castonguay and the others around them. They have a plan that the players understand. Everyone has bought into the professionalism now. Petey wanted to see how the team performs, well, now he knows that we're building something special. A team-friendly deal (which will still render him rich af) to have the chance to win championships is a great negotiating stance that management can pull off.

 

No context about the cap suddenly going flat during the pandemic, with zero warning?  He actually had a pretty solid plan, imo, had COVID not hit.

[Jester13]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

No context about the cap suddenly going flat during the pandemic, with zero warning?  He actually had a pretty solid plan, imo, had COVID not hit.

Sure, we can give him a nod for that, but the point still stands. New management is clearly more competent with their plan than Benning and Weisbrod.

[Pure961089]

2 hours ago, Rocket-68 said:

@WHL rocks posted this earlier, so kudos belong there

 

 

what an unbelievable stat! To even be able to say "Canucks have a defenseman that is within spitting distance of Leetch and Orr while putting Suter, Coffey and Zubov in the rear view mirror is amazing.

 

Truly a pleasure to watch Hughes play, along with Petey, JT, Kuz, Honker, Boeser and the rest of the Canucks. As a long time fan, recently suffering some lean years, happy for this team and all the fellow Canuck fans.

 

We should take up a collection and buy Holland a Christmas card for passing on Hughes in the 2018 draft.

 

 

 

 

Its funny that Quinn's Michigan coach compared him to Bobby Orr.  But nobody's laughing now. 

 

[aGENT]

40 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

It's not about the salary, it's about the percentage of the cap.  It's not Hroneks fault that Hughes signed a long term deal and then broke out.  If he continues this pace, Hronek will get more than Hughes 

I think you also have to factor in some "knowing who's buttering his bread". I don't think it's a big mystery to him or his (or Canucks) management that a LOT of his production is courtesy of playing with Hughes.

 

Will be get a raise? Absolutely. But I don't think you'll see it at the tippy top of comparable values for players with similar production. 

[EdgarM]

13 hours ago, The Aquaman said:

This version of Canucks will probably be better than the Sedin era Canucks.

Not "probably" 

[stawns]

22 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I think you also have to factor in some "knowing who's buttering his bread". I don't think it's a big mystery to him or his (or Canucks) management that a LOT of his production is courtesy of playing with Hughes.

 

Will be get a raise? Absolutely. But I don't think you'll see it at the tippy top of comparable values for players with similar production. 

Depends on how the rest of the season goes.