[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Seattle Kraken ⏰ Nov. 18, 2023, 7:00 PM PT📍Rogers Arena

[IBatch]

39 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Garland is a far superior talent to Beauvillier, both offensively and defensively.  But he just doesn't fit on either of the top lines.  He had some shifts replacing Kuzmenko and looked out of it.  He has played minutes with Miller and Boeser in the past and looked out of it.  And Tocchet is unlikely to demote Di Giuseppe.  Everyone has their favourite player - remember Willie and Vey/Megna?  That's PDG for you.  At least he hustles and defends hard.

PDG is Tochetts Chiasson.    And nothing really wrong with that either.   Agree with all of this.   Garland adds teeth to the third line.   Beauviller...it's really showing now why he was NYI cap dump in that trade.   Which is too bad, would have been better if his deal expired last year.   

[DownUndaCanuck]

The narrative is quite simple - we're thin on defence, one injury to a bottom pairing defenceman has exposed us already. Quinn and Hronek played almost 30 minutes which is not sustainable and if Tocchet keeps that up, we'll start nose-diving in the standings. Cole and Myers played under 20 minutes, we have to give them more minutes if we're playing AHLers as well.

 

The top part of our team is fantastic and we have the best stars in the league right now. Our secondary guys (Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Cole, Myers) are average across the league. Our depth guys (Beauvillier, Garland, Juulsen, Hirose) are trash.

 

I think it's up to Allvin to go and get us a top-4 defenceman before he watches Quinn and Hronek get abused and their play drop off.

[CanucksJay]

6 hours ago, Mrwipeout said:

No separate PGT?

 

well.....to say how it looked, id say it looked like Kraken had way more energy and skated harder. during the game we had more chances but a lot of posts and saves were in the way. basically Kraken outworked us. 

 

Glad to see Kuz back...hes needed even if hes not even close to his previous seasons scoring. 

 

i think we miss soucy more then we should....

 

Id like to see Suter back as center with Joshua and Garland.....lets try Blueger with Hogs and Lafferty....

 

Joshua-suter-Garland

Hoglander-Blueger-Lafferty

 

just a thought....hoglander has more potential within him....he might take more strides then during his first years...thought he was one of our best of the bottom 6 tonight....again. 

 

Yes I really like the Joshua Suter Garland line. That was a 3rd line that was producing when Suter was playing / scoring. I think we saw Bleuger also get his chances when playing on that line but he was a bit snakebitten. Who knows, had he potted a few, we might be singing a different story the last few games. Maybe they should come out with a "we should be worried about Bleuger" article and then Teddy can go on a goal scoring streak. 

 

And your point about Nils. I agree he looked strong again tonight. I don't know what it is about his low centre of gravity and lower body strength but I find it baffling how bigger d men bounce off of him when he takes it hard on the outside and they try to slow him down. I've seen many just bounce and fall on the ice and then the get embarrassed or angry and go after him as soon as the whistle goes. Happens quite frequently actually. 

If he gets his D assignments figured out, he will be a star in the league.  If I was Cgy, Columbus or any of the teams rumoured to be dangling a defensemen, the conversation should start at Hogz + 2nd.

If I was the canucks, I would NOT trade Hogz. I'd rather clear cap by trading Beau and tread water and sign Bear and wait for Soucy to return than give up Hogz. He's one of those trades you'll regret if you give him up. 

[CanucksJay]

5 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

The narrative is quite simple - we're thin on defence, one injury to a bottom pairing defenceman has exposed us already. Quinn and Hronek played almost 30 minutes which is not sustainable and if Tocchet keeps that up, we'll start nose-diving in the standings. Cole and Myers played under 20 minutes, we have to give them more minutes if we're playing AHLers as well.

 

The top part of our team is fantastic and we have the best stars in the league right now. Our secondary guys (Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, Cole, Myers) are average across the league. Our depth guys (Beauvillier, Garland, Juulsen, Hirose) are trash.

 

I think it's up to Allvin to go and get us a top-4 defenceman before he watches Quinn and Hronek get abused and their play drop off.

 

I don't think Hirose and Garland were trash. Hirose should be in the AHL getting big minutes and he looks to have the poise and IQ to make it. 

I also don't think Kuz and Mik are average. They're above avg. Petey is the main culprit that needs to pick up his play. I think he called himself out quite a few games ago and said he needed to be better. I think this was after a win and he had put up points but still wasn't happy with his game. He hasn't played better though. In fact, I'd argue he's played worse since making that comment. That line will go as Petey goes. I wonder if it's injury or contract talks that's getting in his head. 

 

I think the big drop off as you identified is defense. 

You can't have Juulsen AND Hirose playing as 2 of your 6 d men. 

Its really Juulsen being the issue. He is currently playing a role that he absolutely shouldn't be playing. He is an 8D playing 5D  but even higher in the line up because he can't carry his 6D partner (Hirose) so he's getting stints in the top 4.

An NHL team should not be playing Juulsen ever in a top 4 role. He is a fill in 6D when your 7D is injured or needs a game in the pressbox. 

 

Lastly, we started off hot and I'm sure other teams noticed. Canucks could be getting scouted more heavily and opposition coaches might be finding ways to neutralize what the canucks are doing. 

Yesterday was a good example. Our zone entries are getting harder and harder because they are watching tape and clogging up the blue line so we are having to dump it in more than we did the first 15 games. 

You time that with some injuries and Ofcourse there will be some adversity that we need to fight through. 

I have absolute faith in the organization as a whole (management, coaching staff, players) to figure it out and get this bad boy back on track. Our hot start to the season bought us the luxury of time to figure it out rather than panicking right now. 

 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

He is being paid to do more so his slow start has been a bit underwhelming.  Last year, even when he wasn't generating his own offense he had a wonderful knack for getting open for the backdoor tip.

 

He had absurdly high finishing last season so it shouldn't come as a surprise that he regressed a bit.

 

Yes for sure he’s being paid to do more for sure, but I do think we are expecting too much out of a guy that’s being paid 5.5mil. He’s still on pace for 70ish points. In a league where the superstar makes an average of 100k or more per points I think he’s very good value. I also think other team spent the summer watching film on the guy and figured out how to play against him. So at the end of the day as long as he’s still helping the team offensively whether it’s a goal or assist I’m happy. You have to be doing things right to get assist. It’s not like anyone on that line period is scoring much. Ep outside of the hat trick have only 5 goals mik only have 5 goals. 
 

I also think partly because this season anyways QH plays mostly and exclusively with the Miller line vs last year he spent a lot of time playing with EP and kuz. Having an offensive defenceman with QHs talent will free up the forwards a lot as seen when miller line is on the ice. The defence plays a big role on the forward line too. Having cole and some ahler or Myers and some ahler is some mountain size downgrade. If ep line plays with QH and Hronek.. I think the goals will come for the 3 of them. It won’t happen so they pretty much are on their own to generate. 

[DexM94]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Brock and Miller have played more with each other the past four years plus years, than any linemates, Allvin and JR a talked about wanting to build long term pairs.   Things haven't got so bad they need to mess with that.    
 

   Garland is fine, rarely doesn't have a few moments (games i've watched anyways) just expensive and redundant (Mikheyev, Kuzmenko, Brock, Beau).    Does provide good depth for the guys though.   And isn't Beau level expensive for what he adds either.   Shaking up the top six likely won't help much, and we aren't there yet.   Not sure Brock playing on the third line is the answer,  in the past it he's managed ok doing that plus his PP time though.    Garland, Miller, Brock makes more sense,  Giusseppe on the third line, if they want to shake things up and load a line that is. 

Boeser is a pure north-south one dimensional player. He’s not an energy, fast skating guy so he’s not suited for a 3rd line. 
He has serious trouble to control the puck, doesn’t get all the Miller potential’s, and spent his time dumping it to the corner. Nice he s getting goals (I like him and that helps the team) but I see him as the perfect trading asset. Lekkemakki will take his role within 2 years.
I would send him to CLB fir Peeke and the hometown boy Kent. 
I sign Tanev in the off season. 

[NHL Tyranny]

4 hours ago, Psycho_Path said:

Can't stand watching this dogshit reffing nearly every game we play, getting fucked over by the refs. Kraken getting away with so much interference and tripping, it's a joke.

The cynic in me feels the NHL posse has found a way to knock the Nucks down a bit to help McJesus. Don't give them many PPs and watch them fall. The Nucks need to be better 5 on 5, the play-offs demand that anyway.     

[Bob Long]

8 hours ago, Darius said:

I dont know how realistic it is to expect them to keep up the juggernaut pace with 2 AHLers out of 6 on the D.    This also puts other guys in the position of playing higher in the lineup than they should be  and the top pair end up playing practically half the game.  They need another top 4 D man and probably another bottom pair guy that is NHL calibre - even if Soucy is healthy they need to bolster the D.

 

Also, Suter is a key piece to that bottom 6, so smart and defensively inclined.  Keeps things calm and makes the right play.

 

They should make the playoffs, but until they fix the holes im not sure they can compete with the top dogs in a 7 game series.

 

 

 

 

 

This is correct imo. Lots to like about this group but we are thin on support. It might take until next season to get all the pieces needed, unless Allvin has a few more good moves up his sleeve.

[stawns]

7 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

He's human. They'll be back on upswing soon enough. I'll remind you when it happens. 

Who said they wouldn't?

[DrJockitch]

Not too worried. Bound to get a bit of a correction at some point. I think a few things are happening. 
Our depth D didn’t really work out this off-season like we hoped. Irwin isn’t getting a sniff, Woo looked terrible when got a chance and Wolanin got beat out by Hirose like he beat out Rathbone year before. Juulsen has looked pretty bad and Breezy is injured. 
Luck is equalizing. We got a lot lucky breaks early and now that is equalizing. 
Teams are getting into groove and settled in their system, points are harder to come by. 
We have been reading the press clippings and it is clear we aren’t implementing systems as well as we were early.  The first goal last night we saw Brock flinch away from the puck, pivoting out of the way instead of trying to block it, not quite double flamingo but close, Tocchet won’t like that. 
This has been a tough part of the schedule Ottawa one night off, back to back with travel, one night off while travel east to west coast, back to back, one night off with travel and another home game. That is a really tough part of the schedule. 
I know this is a very controversial statement for some but I am curious to see how they respond to some adversity. Hopefully they go the direction of re-focusing on systems and effort instead of just trying to outscore their problems. 

Edited November 19, 2023 by DrJockitch

[Smashian Kassian]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

you guys are expecting way too much out of kuzmenko because of his goal scoring last year.. it's not like he's been a goal scorer his entire career.. 

 

I'm not expecting him to be a 35-40 goal guy, but right now he's on pace for 14 goals this season... Considering he's being paid to produce offense I don't think it's unfair to say you need more than that.

 

[Rip The Mesh]

54 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

This is correct imo. Lots to like about this group but we are thin on support. It might take until next season to get all the pieces needed, unless Allvin has a few more good moves up his sleeve.

You are right. We are a thin team, meaning two or three big injuries to game changer players and we're toast. This team will always have a shitty travel schedule

and that'll never change. We are capped out (as always), and to be honest through the Benning era, we acquired a reputation for it. For sure Rick has done

a wonderful job but I think he was a wee bit miffed as to our so-so effort last nigh. 

Still like this group better then any I've seen in many years. In his interview last night, you could tell JT was absolutely dead dog tired but he still managed to 

get the (Everyone) has to be buying in point across).

 

Stupendous  interview with Quinn Hughes on After Hours. 

[CanucksJay]

14 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Not too worried. Bound to get a bit of a correction at some point. I think a few things are happening. 
Our depth D didn’t really work out this off-season like we hoped. Irwin isn’t getting a sniff, Woo looked terrible when got a chance and Wolanin got beat out by Hirose like he beat out Rathbone year before. Juulsen has looked pretty bad and Breezy is injured. 
Luck is equalizing. We got a lot lucky breaks early and now that is equalizing. 
Teams are getting into groove and settled in their system, points are harder to come by. 
We have been reading the press clippings and it is clear we aren’t implementing systems as well as we were early.  The first goal last night we saw Brock flinch away from the puck, pivoting out of the way instead of trying to block it, not quite double flamingo but close, Tocchet won’t like that. 
This has been a tough part of the schedule Ottawa one night off, back to back with travel, one night off while travel east to west coast, back to back, one night off with travel and another home game. That is a really tough part of the schedule. 
I know this is a very controversial statement for some but I am curious to see how they respond to some adversity. Hopefully they go the direction of re-focusing on systems and effort instead of just trying to outscore their problems. 

Great post

 

Yes I noticed the Brock flinch and turning sideways yesterday.  Not a good look. 

 

I see the glass as half full. Our unreal start has allowed us the luxury of watching this team fight through adversity without panicking knowing playoffs is still likely as long as they put in the work. 

 

I do think the players are accountable and are responsible enough to regroup here and refocus on systems like you said. 

 

I do hope Allvin has something up his sleeve to bolster the defence without subtracting too much from this roster 

I think Beau is the perfect candidate for trade / cap dump without losing much of the production / identity of the lines. 

With Lekkermaki, Willander, Hunter B, Podz, Raty, Bains simmering in juniors /europe/ahl, I would be ok if we use a draft pick or two and be buyers this year for a top 4 D. 

 

Boeser Miller PDG 

Kuz Petey Mik 

Joshua Suter Garland 

Lafferty Bleuger Hogz 

 

Hughes Hronek 

Cole (top 4 trade) 

Soucy Myers 

 

Demko

 

If they play committed to systems, that's a playoff team that can probably get through a couple of rounds

 

 

 

 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I'm not expecting him to be a 35-40 goal guy, but right now he's on pace for 14 goals this season... Considering he's being paid to produce offense I don't think it's unfair to say you need more than that.

 

Unlike last year, where it was Kuz and Petey, kuz is the third wheel on his line and on the pp, everything is going through Hughes, Miller or Petey.  Kuz, simply, isnt getting the opportunities he got last season.

 

They need to try him on a different line

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

You are right. We are a thin team, meaning two or three big injuries to game changer players and we're toast. This team will always have a shitty travel schedule

and that'll never change. We are capped out (as always), and to be honest through the Benning era, we acquired a reputation for it. For sure Rick has done

a wonderful job but I think he was a wee bit miffed as to our so-so effort last nigh. 

Still like this group better then any I've seen in many years. In his interview last night, you could tell JT was absolutely dead dog tired but he still managed to 

get the (Everyone) has to be buying in point across).

 

Stupendous  interview with Quinn Hughes on After Hours. 

 

I don't think we need major surgery, just a couple of bigger bottom 6 and 1 more d and I think we can weather this kind of game better. And a long season for that matter. 

[stawns]

30 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Not too worried. Bound to get a bit of a correction at some point. I think a few things are happening. 
Our depth D didn’t really work out this off-season like we hoped. Irwin isn’t getting a sniff, Woo looked terrible when got a chance and Wolanin got beat out by Hirose like he beat out Rathbone year before. Juulsen has looked pretty bad and Breezy is injured. 
Luck is equalizing. We got a lot lucky breaks early and now that is equalizing. 
Teams are getting into groove and settled in their system, points are harder to come by. 
We have been reading the press clippings and it is clear we aren’t implementing systems as well as we were early.  The first goal last night we saw Brock flinch away from the puck, pivoting out of the way instead of trying to block it, not quite double flamingo but close, Tocchet won’t like that. 
This has been a tough part of the schedule Ottawa one night off, back to back with travel, one night off while travel east to west coast, back to back, one night off with travel and another home game. That is a really tough part of the schedule. 
I know this is a very controversial statement for some but I am curious to see how they respond to some adversity. Hopefully they go the direction of re-focusing on systems and effort instead of just trying to outscore their problems. 

 

This part of the sched is as soft as it gets.  They needed to make hay over this run of games.

[Alflives]

Just now, stawns said:

 

This part of the sched is as soft as it gets.  They needed to make hay over this run of games.

Legs are still recovering from that 5 games in 8 days in 5 cities stretch. Guys will get it going again soon enough. Long season. Lots of ups and downs. 

[stawns]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Legs are still recovering from that 5 games in 8 days in 5 cities stretch. Guys will get it going again soon enough. Long season. Lots of ups and downs. 

Nonetheless, this is the softest stretch of games they're going to get and they needed to put up points here

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

Nonetheless, this is the softest stretch of games they're going to get and they needed to put up points here

Soft schedule is relative. The club made hay during a difficult period. It balances. We are a 105 point club. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Soft schedule is relative. The club made hay during a difficult period. It balances. We are a 105 point club. 

I don't think so.  I think they come in around 97-98

[-dlc-]

I get a little gnarly after a loss and this place takes a nosedive. With that, I get why people are concerned but I don't know that it's fair to put all of our wins in the easy category and our losses into a "we suck" to fit a narrative. Some people here are still very jaded....rightfully so. But you have to start to buy in (too) at some point. The team will have up's and down's....part of human nature to not be "on" all the time. They do have a tough schedule, like other teams, but the West Coast is a different beast when it comes to travel.  I'd just love if we could throw our support behind them without being so harsh and critical at the first signs of "potential" trouble.

 

Petey was coughing a game ago...flu bug running through? It's not unreasonable to maybe consider that because there has been a drop off in energy and speed that doesn't really make sense. Unless it is exhaustion, in which case they have to adjust and work through it. It's a long season and they have to find the endurance needed to get through.

 

But...excuses. I look for reasons but it really doesn't matter after the fact. It is what it is. A loss. Not the loss of an entire season as some immediately default to.  I, too, get nervous about patterns of losses and lacklustre play but it's also early to panic. We'll see what develops and how they respond to a few losses. People tend to make very quick assessments while ignoring the facts (speaking of them) like our record and top scorers. The fact that the team has shown us what they're capable of gets ignored and discounted. Depth is an issue, yes, but it's not a matter of sell the farm, we're done. Some react that way. A little negativity is warranted but the overblown stuff is same ol'.

 

Rick summed it up perfectly: "they were hungrier on pucks". I also believe teams play us harder now because we are up there in the standings so they come out prepared for that. This team has yet to find that consistency and hunger each and every game. Some players have it (JT). A bit of patchwork happening lately and it shows.

 

 

[Blue]

Can someone check the 85 Oilers for how many consecutive games they lost in the regular season ? Let's see what we can expect.

 

 

It might put realty into perspective for some doomers and chicken little's too

Edited November 19, 2023 by Blue

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Soft schedule is relative. The club made hay during a difficult period. It balances. We are a 105 point club. 

 

a record of 40-24 for the rest of the year does seem achievable, particularly if Allvin can bring in a few more complimentary reinforcements. 

[JayDangles]

9 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I'm not expecting him to be a 35-40 goal guy, but right now he's on pace for 14 goals this season... Considering he's being paid to produce offense I don't think it's unfair to say you need more than that.

 

I think there are just too many folks on here that get defensive whenever people say anything remotely negative. Even if the negative is an accurate take on the player or the team. 

Fact: this team has started flat for 6 games now. Yes they got some points, but those were stolen, not earned.

Fact: the following players are not producing at the rate they need to.

-Garland

-Beau

-Kuzmetal

-PDG

-Hogz

-Blueger

-Petey ( yes I realize he is top scorer, but everyone can see he isn't driving the play in any way. His assist last night was because he won the faceoff. That's it. He is getting points IMHO because Hughes, Miller and Boes are playing amazing and Petey is on the ice for it.) Love his back checking two way Play, but something is going on here.

 

For the people who can't understand constructive criticism, I'll say some positive.

Fact: the following players are having an exceptional start to their season.

-Hughes 

-Hronek

-Miller

-DeSmith

-Demko

-Boeser (most notably for his forechecking, scoring and 2 way play. This is all new for him)

-Cole(for what he brings you can't ask more)

-Mik, for coming off major surgery he has looked pretty sharp out there.

 

Fact: the following players aren't playing good, but aren't playing bad either.

-Joshua

-Myers

 

All in all this team is vastly improved from last year. But a lot of holes recently cannot be contributed to missing soucy.

Our forecheck has disappeared.  It was what made us so successful at the start and absolutely wore opponents down. We also balanced that with controlled zone entry.

I'm really hoping Toc has some more tricks up his sleeve to get some of these guys going, and get the team back to playing the way they were when they were scoring 5 a game handily.

 

 

 

 

[Chon derry]

8 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Portions of the Canucks fan base.