[GDT/PGT] Vancouver Canucks vs. Seattle Kraken ⏰ Nov. 18, 2023, 7:00 PM PT📍Rogers Arena

[CanucksJay]

14 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

This part of the sched is as soft as it gets.  They needed to make hay over this run of games.

Thats so strange. You are usually pretty patient with the team. 

They've had a tough travel schedule and are dealing with injuries.  I thought their phenomenal start to the year would have given them a longer leash from the fans. 

Also there's no such thing as an easy game now. I mean didn't Philly beat vegas yesterday?  They beat us pretty soundly too. 

As poorly as the canucks have played, they are 2-3 starting with that loss in Toronto. 

Kraken coming into last night was 6-8-4 in and was probably feeling more desperate than us. It's not like they are a trash team. They knocked out the Avs first round last year and have been underachieving this year and probably realizing if they don't turn it up soon, playoffs will be out of reach. 

Canucks are now the team that other teams get up for and no longer dress their backups.

We played the Flames on a back to back of our 3rd game in 4 nights after an emotional win the previous night. It was most likely going to be a very tough game to win and we lost. 

We then lost a close game to the Kraken yesterday which was really a coin flip. We had our looks yesterday. 

 

We have 5 games before we play LV. We see the Sharks x2, Ducks, Seattle and Avs. 

Soucy is out until Christmas. 

I do think Allvin should pull the trigger for a d man sooner than later. With increased minutes for Hughes and Hronek also leads to fatigue and higher chance of more injuries. 

 

This is another learning stage for this young team. They are dealing with injuries and fatigue but also now playing teams that were / underachieving and playing desperate hockey to get back in the mix. 

 

We need to match that level of effort and I believe the guys realize that. We are lucky to at least have a buffer built up while they are realizing this. 

 

[Alflives]

6 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I think there are just too many folks on here that get defensive whenever people say anything remotely negative. Even if the negative is an accurate take on the player or the team. 

Fact: this team has started flat for 6 games now. Yes they got some points, but those were stolen, not earned.

Fact: the following players are not producing at the rate they need to.

-Garland

-Beau

-Kuzmetal

-PDG

-Hogz

-Blueger

-Petey ( yes I realize he is top scorer, but everyone can see he isn't driving the play in any way. His assist last night was because he won the faceoff. That's it. He is getting points IMHO because Hughes, Miller and Boes are playing amazing and Petey is on the ice for it.) Love his back checking two way Play, but something is going on here.

 

For the people who can't understand constructive criticism, I'll say some positive.

Fact: the following players are having an exceptional start to their season.

-Hughes 

-Hronek

-Miller

-DeSmith

-Demko

-Boeser (most notably for his forechecking, scoring and 2 way play. This is all new for him)

-Cole(for what he brings you can't ask more)

-Mik, for coming off major surgery he has looked pretty sharp out there.

 

Fact: the following players aren't playing good, but aren't playing bad either.

-Joshua

-Myers

 

All in all this team is vastly improved from last year. But a lot of holes recently cannot be contributed to missing soucy.

Our forecheck has disappeared.  It was what made us so successful at the start and absolutely wore opponents down. We also balanced that with controlled zone entry.

I'm really hoping Toc has some more tricks up his sleeve to get some of these guys going, and get the team back to playing the way they were when they were scoring 5 a game handily.

 

 

 

 

[Blue]

17 minutes ago, stawns said:

Nonetheless, this is the softest stretch of games they're going to get and they needed to put up points here

That's bullshit. Calgary was never as bad as their results. Their defense is actually quite good. Seattle is probably not as bad as their start either. 

 

As Bieksa said , Colorado isn't that consistent. If we get healthy and rested , we will be able to challenge the stronger teams. 

[wai_lai416]

35 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

 

I'm not expecting him to be a 35-40 goal guy, but right now he's on pace for 14 goals this season... Considering he's being paid to produce offense I don't think it's unfair to say you need more than that.

 

Marner have 5 goals and doubles kuzmenko cap no one is complaining about him so I think it is unfair. Again a line is a 5 man unit when you have nothing from your defence it’s like 3v5 out there generating. Their whole line is struggling to score as a whole coz their defence generates nothing or gets the puck up the ice to them. 

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

 

Fact: the following players are not producing at the rate they need to.

 

depends on what you mean by 'producing'. Are you considering the net effect of their play?

 

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

-Garland

 

this one - Garly has been playing great. He's been a terrific in a 3rd line role. Joshua-Suter-Garly have been great at tilting the ice. OK they aren't point machines, but teams don't generate chances against us either. 

 

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

-Beau

 

agreed, he's not doing enough. He's also not in the long term plans, hopefully he can be flipped for something at the tdl. 

 

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

-Kuzmetal

 

14 pts in 17 games?

 

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

-PDG

 

same as Garland, he's a league min guy projected to put up ~40 pts, doing a forechecking role. Not sure I see the problem. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

-Hogz

 

he's a guy I'd like to see packaged for a d upgrade. 

 

9 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

-Blueger

 

4 games. 

 

 

[Heretic]

9 goals against the last 2 games, I hope that's just a blip.

[DeNiro]

41 minutes ago, stawns said:

Nonetheless, this is the softest stretch of games they're going to get and they needed to put up points here

Nobody who watches the NHL regularly would say this is a soft stretch of games.

 

Teams are much more even than the standings may show. There’s really only a handful of really bad teams. The difference in a game can often come down to who gets the calls and bounces and who is more rested.
 

This team had played 5 games in 8 nights across different time zones…

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by DeNiro

[Blue]

None of these losses had the same vibes to them as losses in the last 2 years. Both losses , we had the first goal and were tied for a period +. 

 

Both were winnable. 

[Blue]

4 even strength goals for Hoglander for the minutes and games he's played , will put him above any bottom 6 player in the league. 

[CanucksJay]

2 minutes ago, Blue said:

4 even strength goals for Hoglander for the minutes and games he's played , will put him above any bottom 6 player in the league. 

I don't understand the Hogz criticism at all. 

He's been a play driver on his line the last 2 games and was rewarded with 2 goals. He's been playing with energy and jump while the rest of the team looks fatigued

 

 

[wai_lai416]

24 minutes ago, Heretic said:

9 goals against the last 2 games, I hope that's just a blip.

I honestly don’t think so unless Demko stands on his head every night. Look at the high danger chance against in the advance stats. If Demko is near league average we’d be in the 3+ in goals against. They need to get a D soon and cut down on those chance against and not required our goalie to be overworked 

[-dlc-]

10 hours ago, -dlc- said:

Oh really?

 

We're 4th overall for 5 on 5 goals with 40.

 

Update: we're now 2nd

[Mrwipeout]

2 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

 

Yes I really like the Joshua Suter Garland line. That was a 3rd line that was producing when Suter was playing / scoring. I think we saw Bleuger also get his chances when playing on that line but he was a bit snakebitten. Who knows, had he potted a few, we might be singing a different story the last few games. Maybe they should come out with a "we should be worried about Bleuger" article and then Teddy can go on a goal scoring streak. 

 

And your point about Nils. I agree he looked strong again tonight. I don't know what it is about his low centre of gravity and lower body strength but I find it baffling how bigger d men bounce off of him when he takes it hard on the outside and they try to slow him down. I've seen many just bounce and fall on the ice and then the get embarrassed or angry and go after him as soon as the whistle goes. Happens quite frequently actually. 

If he gets his D assignments figured out, he will be a star in the league.  If I was Cgy, Columbus or any of the teams rumoured to be dangling a defensemen, the conversation should start at Hogz + 2nd.

If I was the canucks, I would NOT trade Hogz. I'd rather clear cap by trading Beau and tread water and sign Bear and wait for Soucy to return than give up Hogz. He's one of those trades you'll regret if you give him up. 

I am thinkin about that also...do the other teams see his potential the same way, look at the capspace also.........otherwise id be more surprised if not Garland and Beauvilier would be a more appealing trade......needs and capspace..... 

[-dlc-]

 

[DeNiro]

9 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

I honestly don’t think so unless Demko stands on his head every night. Look at the high danger chance against in the advance stats. If Demko is near league average we’d be in the 3+ in goals against. They need to get a D soon and cut down on those chance against and not required our goalie to be overworked 

High danger chances are gonna go up when a team is fatigued.

 

This is why Tocchet talked about learning how to play tired. This team is still working on that.

 

Some fans clearly need to be reminded how far this team has come since last season. There’s gonna be ups and downs. You can’t expect them to completely undo all those bad habits already. It takes time and consistency.

[CanucksJay]

8 minutes ago, Mrwipeout said:

I am thinkin about that also...do the other teams see his potential the same way, look at the capspace also.........otherwise id be more surprised if not Garland and Beauvilier would be a more appealing trade......needs and capspace..... 

Yeah for cap hit, potential and where he is at currently in terms of skill, pro scouts would not be doing their job if they are not demanding Hogz over Garland or Beauvelier. 

If we trade Hogz and a 2nd, we would need a Rasmus Andersson type player coming back our way.

Hogz for a low end top 4 will look like a bad trade quite quickly. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Not sure how we haven't bumped Hoglander up to play with Petey yet. I don't mind sitting Kuzmenko or dropping him down the lineup for a few games to get him going but Hogs is consistently producing for us right now with dreadful linemates and minutes. The forwards will flux all year long but you have to reward them when they do well.

[Provost]

Looking more human now.  You need your best players to be your best players, but even four elite guys can’t carry the team every night.  They are already getting worn out and we aren’t a quarter of the way through the season.

 

We need to get more scoring from the bottom six and another top 4D so that Hughes doesn’t have to play such extreme minutes.

Maybe this isn’t an “all in” season and it is fine to just make the playoffs… but there are definitely still holes on the team that are mostly being hidden by crazy play from Hughes/Petterson/Miller/Demko.

 

Hoglander is teasing the type of player he could be, if he can take another step with consistency it would make a big difference.  At the same time, maybe he is teasing enough that he can be a solid trade chip.  Kuzmenko has taken a step back, he isn’t driving play like he did before… he has more to give.

Edited November 19, 2023 by Provost

[Blue]

26 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

Update: we're now 2nd

Boeser and Mikeyev are our top producing 5 on 5 players 

[wai_lai416]

12 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

High danger chances are gonna go up when a team is fatigued.

 

This is why Tocchet talked about learning how to play tired. This team is still working on that.

 

Some fans clearly need to be reminded how far this team has come since last season. There’s gonna be ups and downs. You can’t expect them to completely undo all those bad habits already. It takes time and consistency.

the high danger chance have been bottom 5 in the league since game 1.. we are literally ahead of the likes of san jose columbus montreals.. this have nothing to do with fatigue. the only difference between this year and last year is those high danger chance doesn't look as awful as last season where it's constant odd man rushes.. but we are giving up almost the same amount of high danger chance as last season.. they need to figure something out with those as we are going to start playing some of the toughers team now.

[-dlc-]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

this have nothing to do with fatigue. 

So you can't just make a statement like this without backing it up with something to substantiate it.

 

So what are the reasons then?

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

the high danger chance have been bottom 5 in the league since game 1.. we are literally ahead of the likes of san jose columbus montreals.. this have nothing to do with fatigue. the only difference between this year and last year is those high danger chance doesn't look as awful as last season where it's constant odd man rushes.. but we are giving up almost the same amount of high danger chance as last season.. they need to figure something out with those as we are going to start playing some of the toughers team now.

How many slot chances and cross ice passes are we giving up?

 

Those are the ones I care about. With the goaltending we have we can give up high danger chances. The ones that kill us are the ones I mentioned.

[Eddie]

Bummed we lost 2 in a row not gonna lie, but it was always gonna happen and I don't see any huge reasons to panic. 

Both games the team just started to look off and a step behind as time went on. Yeah we're gonna have these difficult compressed schedules throughout the course of the season, that's largely why very very few teams finish with the kind of inflated win rate and stats we went into this stretch with. 

 

I'm not too concerned about bringing in another D right now - i think the D has been OK without Soucy. I don't see them being the single reason we have lost these games at least.  Would love to bring someone in at the right price, but don't want any panic buys. 

 

For me the biggest loss is actually Suiter - we really miss his defensive coverage on the 3rd line and PK, we also miss the extra attacking threat he brings, Bleugher just isn't on the same level there. 

Petey is looking a step behind as well - i know there's been talk of him managing something and you can really tell.  The lad doesn't look himself. He's still putting up points sure, but that line isn't looking very dangerous 5:5 and you can always tell when he is tired and weaker as he goes back to the bambi on ice pattern of falling over, mishandling the puck and looking clumsy.   Fact that Kuzy is injured and not on last years form isn't helping there either as others have pointed out.

Miller line has also looked tired the last couple apart from Miller himself who is stilling playing like an absolute boss. PDG and Boeser not as fast or strong and hard on pucks as they were. 

 

Another reason i really don't wanna throw away too many pieces for desperation buys is that now would be a great time to fall back to some of our depth to help freshen things up.  Inject Bains, Raty, Karlson, Mconnouagh etc into the lineup could really help in these stretches but management clearly feels they aren't ready yet after the 10-0 preseason and I assume the pattern of their general play.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2023 by Eddie

[DeNiro]

3 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

So you can't just make a statement like this without backing it up with something to substantiate it.

 

So what are the reasons then?

No kidding.

 

And with 18 games played those stats can swing quite a bit with a good stretch or bad stretch.

 

Sure we haven’t been sharp the last 4 or 5 games but before that anybody who was watching could see we were playing much better defensively. I don’t need fancy stats to tell me that.

[CanucksJay]

Just now, DeNiro said:

How many slot chances and cross ice passes are we giving up?

 

Those are the ones I care about. With the goaltending we have we can give up high danger chances. The ones that kill us are the ones I mentioned.

I think the additions of Cole and Soucy has contributed greatly to the elimination of cross seam passes (especially on the PK) 

After Soucy got injured and Cole took the first 2 penalties in the NYI game and was in the box instead of the PK , we saw the old pk where we were exploited with our Swiss cheese defense. 

Also Coles shot blocking has been a great improvement over OEL 

I am ok relying on Demko to make the saves you mentioned as well.